How did he do this finish? (3min in)

Jaboof11 · #1 02-28-2009, 10:54 AM

I was watching this video clip and at 3 min in he shows this black guitar with the wood grain white..just wondering if anybody knows how to achieve this or somthing similiar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMqHa9PwEaQ

adube810 · #2 02-28-2009, 11:03 AM

i believe thats sandblasted ash. check out thw warwick tyrannis for that

LedBelli Bass · #3 02-28-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adube810

i believe thats sandblasted ash. check out thw warwick tyrannis for that

Its called a Ceruse finish . . . the subject of much debate among the unpriviledged many (me included) as to exactly how it is done.

Beej · #4 02-28-2009, 03:56 PM

I think Ledbelli's right in that the correct name is "Ceruse", but we always used to call it a pickled finish. And no offense to Ledbelli, but its actually a fairly straightforward, although time-intensive process. I haven't built enough guitars to have ever done it on one, but I've done it lots of times on furniture. I'd say the hardest part would be matching a new pickle with an existing old pickle.

Its really best suited to very open grained woods, like oak, as a closed grain wood won't yield a dramatic result. I know there are tutorials and woodworking websites out there that give advice on it, but our old procedure was as follows:

1. Scrub out the soft grain with a wire brush.
2. Sand to 220, wet to raise grain and sand again.
3. Stain with whatever colour you want (nowadays folks use dyes instead of stain I suppose, but we always got good results with stain).
4. Seal it.
5. Mix plaster of paris as is (for white pore-filling) in a fairly thin slurry, or colour it in a contrasting colour with dyes or even food colouring - this actually works just fine, although its pretty UV sensitive)
6. Wipe on the plaster of paris forcing it into the grain as much as possible. I used to let it dry and then do a second application.
7. Sand it out as per your usual sanding procedure. I used 220 up to about 800 or so for a very smooth finish.
8. French polish with shellac. This will give a glassy finish, I imagine you could use poly or another clearcoat if you don't like how shellac yellows out over time - your call.

The final result looks similar to the video posted above, but honestly, I didn't ever do it with dye, I only did it with stain, and usually it was done to give a "negative grain" effect or to match existing pickled finishes. The fellow I learned this from (Gord) spent the better part of his life as a museum exhibit designer and knew all sorts of ancient tricks for finishes, faux looks, and trompe l'oeil. As I said before, the really hard part was matching an existing finish. We once had to match an ebony stain with burgundy pore filling on an 18th century table that needed two new legs. Gord guessed the original "dye" in the pore filling was handmade from berry juice. We must have made a dozen mixtures before we got one that dried close enough to make it difficult to tell what was new and what was old.

I guess since I have experience with it, I should get my s**t together and post a pictorial for those who want to see it done!

Beej · #5 02-28-2009, 04:11 PM

Here's a thread from right here in the LC on this very topic: How do you achieve Fbass Ceruse Finish?

LedBelli Bass · #6 02-28-2009, 11:07 PM

Right on . . . F-Bass does this on Ash a lot. We need to get this thing surrounded and post some stuff that is difinitive, with pictured results, that show it . . .

tjclem · #7 03-01-2009, 07:44 AM

"I guess since I have experience with it, I should get my s**t together and post a pictorial for those who want to see it done!"

PLEASE!!

I have tried sandblasting, pore filling all on Swamp Ash and am not thrilled with the results. I would love to be able to do this........t

Projectile · #8 03-01-2009, 08:12 AM

It's important to use enough sealer that you won't burn through and sand into the stained wood, but you can't use too much sealer or you will start to fill the grain with sealer and then the plaster won't stick into the grain. You also have to know how to sand in a controlled manner. It seems easy for guys that have done it a million times, but I have seen so many beginners sand through into the stained wood that I know there is a learning curve.

I don't know what the mention of sandblasting is about. I don't believe any sandblasting is involved in this finish. I've done similar finishes on furniture and it's a pretty straightforward process. You just need to select a very open grain wood. Oak is by far my favorite for these types of finishes.

BTW, is that how neck pockets are usually cut??? I was surprised to see them do it free hand like that. Seems like that would leave a pretty sloppy pocket. I would have to use a jig for a critical cut like that, and I'm pretty good with a router. Never built a guitar myself though, just furniture.

T2W · #9 03-01-2009, 08:31 AM

Sandblasting would carve out the 'spring rings', the soft wood, darker wood that grows in the springtime. Since they are softer, the sand would take em out faster than the summer wood. Thanks beej for the good info. Id also love to see a pictorial on this.

Projectile · #10 03-01-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T2W

Sandblasting would carve out the 'spring rings', the soft wood, darker wood that grows in the springtime. Since they are softer, the sand would take em out faster than the summer wood. Thanks beej for the good info. Id also love to see a pictorial on this.

Ahhh, that makes sense. I've never tried sandblasting before, but IMO that is not what was done to obtain the effect in that video. It looks to me like they just started with a wood that had a naturally open grain. I've obtained similar results with oak simply by using a technique very similar to the what Beej described.

Here is an guide with pictures, although it is a little brief in the description of the process, and step 4 seems entirely out of sequence:

http://www.wooddigest.com/print/Finishing-Magazine/Step-By-Step--Weathered-Ceruse/1$1262

LedBelli Bass · #11 03-01-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Projectile

BTW, is that how neck pockets are usually cut??? I was surprised to see them do it free hand like that. Seems like that would leave a pretty sloppy pocket. I would have to use a jig for a critical cut like that, and I'm pretty good with a router. Never built a guitar myself though, just furniture.

That is a pin-router they are using.

The body is vacuum clamped to the "form". The form has the necessary recesses in the bottom (unseen) side.

A "pin" (that is in perfect alignment with the router bit above) in the table raises up from the bottom and engages the recesses in the form.

The machine operator then just moves the form over the pin, while lowering the router bit in increments (as shown). So long as the body is positioned on the form correctly, this process produces the same, exact results every time.

The same process is used for routing the pup cavities, control cavities, etc.

Projectile · #12 03-01-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LedBelli Bass

That is a pin-router they are using.

The body is vacuum clamped to the "form". The form has the necessary recesses in the bottom (unseen) side.

A "pin" (that is in perfect alignment with the router bit above) in the table raises up from the bottom and engages the recesses in the form.

The machine operator then just moves the form over the pin, while lowering the router bit in increments (as shown). So long as the body is positioned on the form correctly, this process produces the same, exact results every time.

The same process is used for routing the pup cavities, control cavities, etc.

Thanks. 'Learn something new every day!