How do you put a flame figure on an ordinary piece of maple?

[CoolGuy1030]

I'm planning my first build and I'm pretty sure I want to make a neck-through, mahogany body bass with a Spalted Maple top, and my question is: How do you put a flame figure on an ordinary piece of maple?

Now, I understand that when I say "flamed" there is at least three different things I could be referring to:
1. A piece of maple that already has a fiddle back figure
2. A piece of maple with a sunburst paint job or
3. A piece of maple that has (what looks like) artificial stripes on the body perpendicular the center line

In this thread, I am referring to #3

Here a few examples of what i mean, especially the Spalted maple one:

Better pictures available at:
http://www.sadowsky.com/stock/nyc_b_is.html

[barnaclebeau]

Those are real flames, amigo. Look how the spalt lines 'wiggle' where the flames are:

[Taylor Livingston]

What makes you think the flame in those is fake?

[stingray69]

Spalting is actually a fungus attacking the tree. It is already in the tree's wood to begin with. There are ways to "make" it occur in a tree. Then of course there's the photo-flame method (or spalt, or any other desired effect) but that has nothing to do with naturally occurring spalt, it's more of a thin "image" veneer put onto the maple (or any other underlying wood) to give the appearance of a highly figured piece of wood.

[roberthabraken]

Put it on fire, that'll give you some nice flames (although not all of them perpendicular to the center line, don't know how to do that, actually).







But seriously.. why do you think they would be artificial?? Like Sadowsky paints 'm on their basses? Never heard of that before..

Oh, and by the way.. flamed never refers to a sunburst. They call that sunburst.

[mikeyswood]

Roger is just one DAMN good painter!

[BurningSkies]

OP, can you tell me which one mine is?

[DerHoggz]

Yea, what was said above. Flame maple is usually real unless it has a film over it. Sadowsky's are definitely not fake flamed. You might be able to find flamed, spalted maple, but it will be tough. IMO, photo-flame is lame.

[roberthabraken]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

That is the most ridiculous top I've ever seen!!!!!! Rastaburst on spalted flamed maple with matching pups... it makes me cry .. soooo beautiful..

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by roberthabraken

That is the most ridiculous top I've ever seen!!!!!! Rastaburst on spalted flamed maple with matching pups... it makes me cry .. soooo beautiful..

Wow, yeah, that is something. I'd love to see more pics of that bass. (sorry to derail the thread - carry on)

[scottyd]

Originally Posted by CoolGuy1030

I'm planning my first build and I'm pretty sure I want to make a neck-through, mahogany body bass with a Spalted Maple top, and my question is: How do you put a flame figure on an ordinary piece of maple?

Now, I understand that when I say "flamed" there is at least three different things I could be referring to:
1. A piece of maple that already has a fiddle back figure
2. A piece of maple with a sunburst paint job or
3. A piece of maple that has (what looks like) artificial stripes on the body perpendicular the center line

In this thread, I am referring to #3

Here a few examples of what i mean, especially the Spalted maple one:

Better pictures available at:
http://www.sadowsky.com/stock/nyc_b_is.html

Are you serial?

[WRXbase]

I'll ask: What makes the wood get the flame lines in it?

[mongo2]

Originally Posted by WRXbase

I'll ask: What makes the wood get the flame lines in it?

It's supposedly a defect in the growth pattern of the tree.

I once read about an old flintlock/percussion gunsmithing technique where the gunsmith would wrap a stock (usually of plain maple) in rope or twine leaving gaps and use a torch to singe the exposed wood to mimic the striations of the real flamed maple used in higher grade stocks.

[hbarcat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_maple

[otis_thick]

Originally Posted by WRXbase

I'll ask: What makes the wood get the flame lines in it?

The trunk and or limbs are twisted or bent as the tree grows.



I think the original poster is thinking of Faux Finishing for wood but it won't have the water effect of curly or flamed wood.

Here are some Faux Finish tools. It would be easier to make flamed or curly have a spalted look than the other way around.

http://www.o-geepaint.com/Faux/graining.shtml
http://www.o-geepaint.com/Faux/brushes.shtml

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by roberthabraken

That is the most ridiculous top I've ever seen!!!!!! Rastaburst on spalted flamed maple with matching pups... it makes me cry .. soooo beautiful..

Off topic, More information and pictures can be found here:

SHELDON DINGWALL is building MY DREAM BASS

New Dingwall Z-1 Rastaburst Pics!!!!

On topic, if you want to know really how things happen to wood grain, this is a nice page:

http://www.ag.auburn.edu/aaes/commun...einwood/#intro

[Rodent]

Originally Posted by CoolGuy1030

How do you put a flame figure on an ordinary piece of maple?

you could always use the method that Fender Japan utilized back in the 80's called Fotoflame. it essentially is a thin transparent film image reproduction of what a grainless flamed piece of wood would look like (you gotta use your imagination on that description)

after this was applied they finished it with a semi-transparent finish and viola! you had the look of expensive flamed wood

the reality for those of us who daon't have a production line like Fender is that we're forced to use real wood with real figuring to get those flames. the bonus for our clients is that 20 years from now when they decide to refinish their bass they don't strip or sand thru the flame job while prepping the body

all the best,

R

[Dave Muscato]

Okay, first, welcome to Talkbass

Second, Roger Sadowsky doesn't do photo-flame (or foto-flame), which is what you're talking about (#3, as you mentioned: #1 is just real flamed maple, #2 is irrelevant and just the color/finish... it has nothing to do with the type of wood used).

Fender messed with foto-flame finishes (basically, a sticker that made it look like flamed maple, stuck onto regular wood, and then painted over). They can look okay, but don't let the wood resonate very well. Here's some more info:

http://www.xhefriguitars.com/page7.html

Hope this helps.

[blockinlay]

Here's a flame job I did on an explorer I previously built ten years ago. I was bored with it. Last year I made it a three pickup, added a vibrato, and glued a maple veneer on the top. Turned out rather well, and I was playing it this afternoon.

[Dekker]

Being a woodworker before becoming a wannabe bassist, I can answer that you can't get a "faux" finish to look like the real thing... at least not if you want to be proud of it enough to show someone who isn't your mother.

Flame, curly, and bird's eye are three effects for wood that are made by mother nature, specifically the waves or ripples of the tree's trunk as it grows upwards.

Spalting, the other effect you (the OP) referred to, is caused by the wood having partially "rotted" and been attacked by a fungus, causing certain growth rings to rot. When the log is cut, those rings are exposed and we get spalting.

Sorry I didn't have all the same woods for examples, but you can get the idea from these, as the terms apply to any woods.

The difference between curly and flame is the "regularity" of the curls. Flame is very random (large blobs, small blobs, etc). These are curly because they are nicely arranged.




In this next pic, you can see the side-view of the curls... You can see that the wood actually RIPPLES, giving the curly effect on the surface.



Now, as for how to put this on your wood.... the simple answer is you cannot, not unless you are already an expert with an airbrush. That said, the effect is more than just superficial (surface paint/color), it actually has a chatoyance that changes the amount of light that is reflected/refracted as you view the curl/flame from different angles. Therefore, you can not recreate that yourself. You have to buy the right piece of wood.

Sunburst or starburst is just adding a series of stains (from light to dark or dark to light) to accentuate the natural wood grain, leaving a lighter area in the center and a darker area near the edges.

I'm afraid to say that you're going to have to visit your local lumberyard. Not the HDepot, but actual lumber mill or yard.