How exactly does wood affect tone in electric basses?

manutabora · #1 08-11-2008, 10:53 AM

I've always wondered about this. As far as I can tell, the vibrations go from the strings to the pickups. The pickups pick the sound up by magnetic, not mechanical, means. So just where exactly do tonewoods come into play? Do pickups also perceive the vibrations from the wood around them?

For the record, I am not a builder and I don't know anything about woods or electronics, what I just wrote is what I'm guessing out of common sense but I could be entirely wrong. Let me know if that is so.

MikeyB · #2 08-11-2008, 11:15 AM

A particular note, say an "A" at 440hz, sound vastly different when played on a flute vs a clarinet. This difference is what is referred to as "timbre", and is a result of different harmonic overtones generated by the construction/physics of the different instruments. So when you pluck a certain note on a bass guitar, the waveform generated by the vibrating string is very complex and rich with harmonic overtones.

Now here's where the wood comes in: various woods interact with the harmonic overtones of the note in different ways - effectively cancelling out or reinforcing certain spectral elements (those overtones) as the string vibrates. All other things being equal (string type, pickups, etc, etc) different body woods will cause the string to actually vibrate in slightly different ways which of course affects the timbre.

Since the string is physically vibrating differently depending on woods, then it follows that the pickups amplify a different sound. This difference in sound quality is really timbre, not tone - though everyone uses that term.

That's the dollar tour anyway!

Hope that helps!

-M

manutabora · #3 08-11-2008, 11:20 AM

I guess that does make sense, although some day I would love to a/b basses with identical hardware, pickups, strings, etc. but built out of different woods and see how different the timbres actually are.
Thanks for the reply.

dvh · #4 08-11-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manutabora

I guess that does make sense, although some day I would love to a/b basses with identical hardware, pickups, strings, etc. but built out of different woods and see how different the timbres actually are.
Thanks for the reply.

In a blind test I think you'd be hard pressed to discern any appreciable difference.

This is one of the most perpetually discussed topics in this site. The Basses Forum archive is packed with them.

nemo · #5 08-11-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manutabora

I guess that does make sense, although some day I would love to a/b basses with identical hardware, pickups, strings, etc. but built out of different woods and see how different the timbres actually are.
Thanks for the reply.

Check samples here - same model of bass - all things equal, besides woods combinations:
http://www.thegrooveshoppe.com/GS5/clips/clips.htm

ehque · #6 08-11-2008, 11:46 AM

Well the assumptions you make are incorrect, so you logically come to the wrong conclusion. Different woods have different densities and hardness, so they absorb different frequencies from the strings differently. The pickups don't sense the difference from the wood around them, but the strings vibrate differently. Hope that helps.

wilser · #7 08-11-2008, 12:27 PM

oh no, not again

Georynn · #8 08-11-2008, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilser

oh no, not again

Just sit back and enjoy the show...

Some famous person - "take comfort in patterns and routines, but do not rely on them"

SDB Guitars · #9 08-11-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilser

oh no, not again

I concur...

Larry Davis · #10 08-11-2008, 02:12 PM

These tone hammer-ins are fun to read until someone posts the 'absolute conlusive proof" they are right.

This tone stuff is the result of old guard builders and small company marketers who have accumulated stacks of "anointed" wood they need to peddle at a good profit. We often hear with our eyes don't ya know. ...and that's the absolute conclusive truth

Brad Johnson · #11 08-11-2008, 02:16 PM

Which is why some builders recommend tonewoods even though they don't upcharge for them. Their motivation must be making the same money regardless.

dvh · #12 08-11-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Davis

We often hear with our eyes don't ya know. ...and that's the absolute conclusive truth

+ a million

Psychicpet · #13 08-11-2008, 02:28 PM

my ash bodied J style bass and alder bodied P bass resonate completely differently.

unplugged, there is no doubt of a difference in how both of the basses ring.

wood matters.

period.

and I'm no builder, just a player.

manutabora · #14 08-11-2008, 04:08 PM

Sorry, I didn't realize the same question was asked so many times already.
Mods, please close the thread.

dvh · #15 08-11-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psychicpet

my ash bodied J style bass and alder bodied P bass resonate completely differently.

unplugged, there is no doubt of a difference in how both of the basses ring.

wood matters.

period.

and I'm no builder, just a player.

but J bodies and necks are different from P bodies and necks

Ray Holt · #16 08-11-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Davis

These tone hammer-ins are fun to read until someone posts the 'absolute conlusive proof" they are right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psychicpet

my ash bodied J style bass and alder bodied P bass resonate completely differently.

unplugged, there is no doubt of a difference in how both of the basses ring.

wood matters.

period.

and I'm no builder, just a player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Davis

These tone hammer-ins are fun to read until someone posts the 'absolute conlusive proof" they are right.

*sigh*

Robybass · #17 08-11-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nemo

Check samples here - same model of bass - all things equal, besides woods combinations:
http://www.thegrooveshoppe.com/GS5/clips/clips.htm

Good page Nemo.
Personaly I like the alder and ebony sound.

Psychicpet · #18 08-11-2008, 04:48 PM

these threads are fun.

even if my player ears disqualify my opinion

and yes, P and J bodies and necks are different and mass affects resonance but I guess that's part of my point, different woods have different mass and that affects how they resonate.

as for no hard conclusive evidence that different woods sound , well, differently, I guess I'll agree to believe that all who disagree are sadly lacking

**Rodent** · #19 08-11-2008, 05:00 PM

reminder to self: time to get a new tube of PrepH

these threads are like a hemerrhoid attack - they always break out when you least expect them, they turn bloody right when the big turds are being delivered, and they never resolve anything except to profit the company that makes PrepH

all the best,

R

p.s. sorry for the anal ogy Wilser, but it's the only one that seems to fit these discussions

pilotjones · #20 08-11-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvh

but J bodies and necks are different from P bodies and necks

+1 particularly the neck, which is a vibrating beam supported at one end only, and which, by virtue of its increased width at the nut, is significantly more massive in that region.

[ edit ] This is only theoretical, although I think a simulation would bear it out. What I'd like to know, though, is whether there are any experienced players out there, who have played many Ps and Js, who know how to and regularly do recognize the "fender dead spot," and who could comment on any differences they may have found between 4-string P and J necks in this respect.