For luthiers: a opinion

umberto · #1 06-11-2004, 08:18 PM

I've decided (almost...)! What do you think about this:

neck (5 pieces): bubinga-purple heart-cocobolo-purple heart-bubinga

fretboard (fretted): ebony

body: honduran mahogany

top: bocote

I think it will sound good (great???

).
I need your opinion (expecially criticism).

Trevorus · #2 06-11-2004, 08:22 PM

well, I think that if it is solidly built, it can sound fine. I think you should make the neck one less cocobolo strip. Make is one center strip. I think the pickups will make the biggest difference here.

tjclem · #3 06-11-2004, 08:28 PM

It will be a very heavy solid neck be sure to use light tuners and or position your strap hangers correctly. Sounds nice. I have a big slab of Purpleheart I need to cut into. I haven't worked with it yet...Good Luck...tom

umberto · #4 06-11-2004, 10:24 PM

Yeah!!! Sure: in my last post I made a mistake: just one cocobolo strips (in the middle; infact it was 5 pieces not 6

). Better if I correct it! I'm gonna do it

Thanks guys

Trevorus · #5 06-11-2004, 10:53 PM

sweet, you know you absolutely must post pics.

Pete skjold · #6 06-12-2004, 02:13 PM

Hey man, That will be one serious neck! What glue will you use ? Yellow glue wont work on the cocobolo, the wood ,it is far to oilly and will let go after a while. What type of truss rod are you going to use? I would recommend a dual action rod because the neck might need some forward bow added to it at first until it settles in. It will be very stiff. As far as the sound , it will be very peonounced in the midrange and compress the lowend. Like a Warwick type of sound. I would recommend a slow cure epoxy or polyurathane glue like gorilla glue for the glue up of the neck blank and the fingerboard. Make sure you keep the glue out of the truss rod cavity!!!

If you need any other advice let me know and good luck.

Pete

tjclem · #7 06-12-2004, 03:51 PM

Never use Gorilla glue for a fingerboard. I made that mistake. If you have to replace the fingerboard you will throw the neck away. Wipe both surfaces with acetone then use titebond..........t

Rapscallion2112 · #8 06-12-2004, 09:52 PM

thats gonna be one crazy neck. just make sure you glue it with glue that will hold all of them. id like to see pictures of that when you do that.

umberto · #9 06-13-2004, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete skjold

[...] What type of truss rod are you going to use? [...] If you need any other advice let me know and good luck.

Pete

Thank you Pete!
In my mind there are the Dual Action Truss Rod (Spoke Nut Hot Rod) and a Graphite reinforced adjustable truss rod, but i'm still loocking for a 2-way adjustable graphite reinforced truss rod. Does it exist or have I to customize it

?

P.S.
I've alredy found this: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_ro...7.html#details

Pete skjold · #10 06-13-2004, 08:21 PM

What do you mean by a graphite reinforced truss rod ? Do you mean A truss rod and graphite reinforcement spars on each side?
Luthiers mercantile or LMI , has dual action truss rods and a wide selection of graphite spars. They do carry graphite U-channel that is designed to have a truss rod sit in it but this might make the channel in the neck too deep for a dual action truss rod. Check them out and see what they have.

www.lmii.com
Pete

Suburban · #11 06-14-2004, 04:13 AM

That neck is much too heavy.
Go for ovangkol and padouk, instead of bubunga and purpleheart. Similar colours, stiff enough and much lighter.

Cocobolo is not for load carrying laminations, because it is remarkably difficult to glue. I've even heard of instanses, where epoxi didn't manage to keep it together...

Bass Kahuna · #12 06-14-2004, 11:08 AM

I'll add support to the stiffness of such a neck. I'm finishing up a 6 string that I made the neck with a center of coco bolo, then two thin flamed maple stringers, then the outsides of padauk. It is one STIFF mofo, but I wanted it to give the low B string a very stiff neck to keep it from being too floppy. It looks gorgeous too! Here is a pi or two:

I've got another neck with a center of coco bolo, then two strips of canary and the outsides of bubinga. Gonna be another "stiffy". It is getting a swamp ash headstock and swamp ash body wings.

I've also got a neck I'm experimenting with that has a center of paduak, then two purpleheart stringers, and the outsides of teak! I found a gorgeous piece of teak in a local lumber store that had some nice colors and some flame figuring in it and thought I'd experiment a bit. That one is going to get walnut body wings and a walnut headstock.

:^)~

umberto · #13 06-16-2004, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjclem

Never use Gorilla glue for a fingerboard. I made that mistake. If you have to replace the fingerboard you will throw the neck away. Wipe both surfaces with acetone then use titebond..........t

Hi tjclem!
Where can I found Titebond (alifatic resin?)? McDowell and LMII don't seem to sale it.

schuyler · #14 06-16-2004, 02:19 AM

you can get titebond at most any woodworking or home improvement store. also available are titebond II and III, which have slightly different characteristics. check out www.titebond.com for full product specs.

i worry that you'll find this bass rather heavy... don't know if it's a neck-through or a bolt-on, but if it's a neck-through my main worry is that it will be far too neck heavy, given the lighter mahogany for the body. if it's a bolt-on then the center of gravity will be even further out the neck, exacerbating the problem. you'll have to do some creative designwork to keep the neck on this one from diving.

not to contradict anyone's experience, but i haven't had any troubles gluing up cocobolo... i just clean it with acetone first, the same as i'd do for teak.

Mudfuzz · #15 06-16-2004, 02:33 AM

DO NOT USE TITEBOND II FOR INSTRUMENT BUILDING. The stuff doesn't harden properly, isn't easy to disassemble, trust me I KNOW.

This might help, http://www.mimf.com/minifaq.htm scroll down to the bottom [Q. What's the best glue]

tjclem · #16 06-16-2004, 05:11 AM

"you can get titebond at most any woodworking or home improvement store. also available are titebond II and III, which have slightly different characteristics. check out www.titebond.com for full product specs.

i worry that you'll find this bass rather heavy... don't know if it's a neck-through or a bolt-on, but if it's a neck-through my main worry is that it will be far too neck heavy, given the lighter mahogany for the body. if it's a bolt-on then the center of gravity will be even further out the neck, exacerbating the problem. you'll have to do some creative designwork to keep the neck on this one from diving.

not to contradict anyone's experience, but i haven't had any troubles gluing up cocobolo... i just clean it with acetone first, the same as i'd do for teak."

I agree with all of the above. If you haven't built the body extend the top horn to a spot even with the 10th or 11th fret and put the rear strap hanger closer to the spot where your right arm touches the bass and further away from the control pot area.........if you can understand what I am trying to say.Also use light tuners.That should help balance it....t

schuyler · #17 06-16-2004, 10:25 PM

other ideas to help balance the bass:

increase the size (mass) of the body
keep the control cavity as small as possible
use a heavier bridge than normal
go with a 18v preamp instead of a 9v -- that extra battery is pretty heavy for it's size
metal knobs instead of wood or plastic
keep the headstock as small as possible
cut the body thicker -- maybe 1 7/8" rather than 1 3/4"
rout some pockets in the body and fill them with lead shot

i agree that titebond II is harder to disassemble, but that's an advantage in certain instances. i don't want to steam apart the laminations in the neck, even though it's nice to be able to do so to a fingerboard. i don't know about not hardening properly. i've never had a problem with soft joints, and i go through a 55 gallon drum of the stuff every few weeks. maybe bad temps? or too thick a spread?

DW · #18 06-17-2004, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A M N

DO NOT USE TITEBOND II FOR INSTRUMENT BUILDING. The stuff doesn't harden properly, isn't easy to disassemble, trust me I KNOW.

This might help, http://www.mimf.com/minifaq.htm scroll down to the bottom [Q. What's the best glue]

Pardon me, but that's just a complete crock about Titebond II not hardening properly. Take a good look at Ken Smith's two posts in this thread: Which glue is the best for building.... : 12+ years using Titebond II, zero failures. And he produces hundreds of basses a year.

MIMF put it in their FAQ based on a couple of people who complained, without investigating to see if it was true or if it was being used properly by the people who reported problems. Well, MIMF's owner can put whatever she wants in the FAQ over there, but it's still wrong, and it shouldn't be repeated here.

I have used Titebond II in several woodworking projects. If you use it according to instructions, it dries hard as a rock, just like Ken said.

Mudfuzz · #19 06-17-2004, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DW

Pardon me, but that's just a complete crock about Titebond II not hardening properly. Take a good look at Ken Smith's two posts in this thread: Which glue is the best for building.... : 12+ years using Titebond II, zero failures. And he produces hundreds of basses a year.

MIMF put it in their FAQ based on a couple of people who complained, without investigating to see if it was true or if it was being used properly by the people who reported problems. Well, MIMF's owner can put whatever she wants in the FAQ over there, but it's still wrong, and it shouldn't be repeated here.

I have used Titebond II in several woodworking projects. If you use it according to instructions, it dries hard as a rock, just like Ken said.

I have got Tb II to work, and infact have had only one time I didn't perform as I would have liked, [and I DID FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS] which was on a fingerboard. I Will admit that There might be other reasons then the glue it self: when the glue was made, the temperature / humidity [I live in Seattle, lots of humidity, hard to control in my current shop] ect. I have never had a problem with any other glue. I got it to work but it was a hassle. I have used it other times and I haven’t had any problems with it, but I will not recommend it, there are other glues I like much better. I prefer Polyurethane glues, but that’s just me.

If Ken Smith likes TB II, I don’t have any qualms about that. But I’ll bet that they went through a lot of testing on the best way to handle it and set up accordingly.

DW · #20 06-17-2004, 05:52 PM

There are other glues I like better too, it's not as user-friendly as some others, but I've used it for some outdoor projects and it's worked well.

Now MIMF offers a lot of valuable information and different viewpoints on ways to get things done. And I appreciate that. But several long-timers and/or staff members dominate a lot of discussions with their own biases and some of their own unorthodox methods -- for example, gluing down fretboards with epoxy. Hey, if it works for a few of them, that's fine. But it's not done that way in the industry, which uses Titebond and lots of clamps.

That's okay as long as it's on their board. What bothers me is the way certain prejudices at MIMF seem to get spread around to other boards as fact. Like the Titebond II story.