Mahogany Bass Necks

[bigtexashonk]

The mahogany neck on my Lull T4 is nothing short of amazing.

[hover]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

The displayed ignorance about why Les Paul head stocks snap is hilarious,...The headstocks snap because the necks have an angled headstock which is cut from 1 piece of wood. Cutting a straight grained piece of wood on an angle creates short grain and thus a weaker piece of wood.
As for the Volute, this is to counteract the amount of wood removed for the truss rod access.

I believe I addressed every single one of these things already.

[HaMMerHeD]

OK, thanks guys. Mahogany it is. So right now, here's my plan:

Woodcraft near me sells mahogany table leg turning blanks in 3x3x36" for about $35. It might be a bit high for a 12/4 piece of mahogany that size, but it's honestly all I really need. And since it's been in the same climate as me and my work space, it won't need much time to acclimatize to my shop.

Last time I was there, I took a close look at them. They are flatsawn, but very straight-grained. So I grab one of those, saw it in half length-wise, and glue it back together with the grain direction of each piece opposing the other, and with a piece of purpleheart in the middle. After it cures, I saw it down in half length-wise perpendicular to the lamination, giving me two slightly-less-than 1.5" thick neck blanks (minus the blade kerf, obviously).

I'd like to use a 1/4" thick purpleheart strip, but I am concerned about doing that because I'll be routing the truss rod slot down the middle, which is a 1/4" wide slot. Since that would basically remove just purpleheart for that 3/8" deep section of neck, it would reduce the glued surface area, and I have a fear that it could reduce the strength of that lamination. Am I correct or paranoid? For that reason, I was going to go with a 3/8" or 1/2" thick purpleheart laminate, so that the entire gluing surface remains in tact.

Or, basically, this:



Oh, also I'd put carbon fiber reinforcements in the thing.

[hover]

3 or 4. I'd do #3.

[HaMMerHeD]

Originally Posted by hover

3 or 4. I'd do #3.

It's actually the whole process I described in the text above. Start at 1, go through to 5, to turn 1 3x3x36" piece of mahogany and a thin PH strip into 2 laminated neck blanks.

[hover]

Right. My apologies. I thought you were simply showing grain orientation options....feelin silly over here.

[line6man]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

The displayed ignorance about why Les Paul head stocks snap is hilarious, the main reason is because of careless musicians. The headstocks snap because the necks have an angled headstock which is cut from 1 piece of wood. Cutting a straight grained piece of wood on an angle creates short grain and thus a weaker piece of wood. But the fact that there are hundreds if not thousands of 1950's gibsons out therepoints more to the carelessness of the musician than the durability of a properly cared for instrument. As I have stated before, I live in the town with more Gibson Guitars per capita than any other, and I get more Non Gibson cracked and broken headstock repairs than I do gibson.

As for the Volute, this is to counteract the amount of wood removed for the truss rod access. This is why Fenders have the same principle in their flat head stock heel.

Glad to be able to help quell the myth laden Gibson Headstock lack of information.

Good to learn something new. (Sadly, I'm still stuck in Fender land with a preference for straight headstocks/staggered tuners.)

Though I'm a bit doubtful. Surely the volute does add strength to an otherwise weak area? The wood in the area where the headstock starts to bend back is very thin, and volutes beef it up.

Does anyone else want to chime in?

[Beej]

I think volutes are also probably a thumb position throwback or design variation carried down from the violin family, but that's just a guess. Whatever they actually bring for strength, I love them for their beauty...

[hover]

They have to add strength, Martin adds a diamond shaped volute to the back of their necks for the same reason, iirc. My comment about the "auto eject" headstock was obviously in jest but I still take exception to their execution of the design when the volute is absent.

[Musiclogic]

Line6man, and everyone else that did not read my post, I stated very plainly the Volute is added to reinforce the area where the truss access is. YES, this is because this is a weak area, but really has nothing toi do with the common headstock snap.

[prd004]

I have a Carvin with a mahogany neck. It actually goes out of adjustment less than the other basses I own. And, I have it strung with Roto 77's which are some of the highest tension strings around!
I would say no problem IMO.

[Musiclogic]

Originally Posted by hover

I wouldn't say it's undesirable, I cannot attest to its stability but there have been very real concerns drawn, in one-piece construction any way, that point to Mahogany being inherently short-grained wood that can fail at the headstock transitions if the instrument was jarred into of fell onto that area from string tension and the void milled for the truss rod... the original non-reverse Gibson Thunderbird necks were one piece set necks, iirc.

Lots of builders love this wood for god reason, great warm tone.

Nope Hover, you stated above that Mahogany is Inheirently short grained, which is false, and the grain length depends on the way the wood is cut.

I explained WHY the grain was short in the headstock area, and how it becomes this way. That is a very distinct difference from a supposition.

[HaMMerHeD]

AAAaanyway. I got the mahogany today, and some purpleheart. A total of about $56 for enough wood for 2 necks. May seem high to some, but it's the best I can do in my neck of the woods, where the nearest proper lumberyard is out of state.

[line6man]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

Line6man, and everyone else that did not read my post, I stated very plainly the Volute is added to reinforce the area where the truss access is. YES, this is because this is a weak area, but really has nothing toi do with the common headstock snap.

The way you phrased it was such that you seem to be saying that the volute is not there to reinforce the headstock, per se, but rather, just to "even out" the difference between having truss rod access in that area and not.

[prd004]

Let us not fail to mention that the number one, prime reasons Gibson's break at the headstock is not because of the wood, or the design...............

It's because people drop them or knock them over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(I've yet to see one snap on it's own)!

[Meatrus]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

AAAaanyway. I got the mahogany today, and some purpleheart. A total of about $56 for enough wood for 2 necks. May seem high to some, but it's the best I can do in my neck of the woods, where the nearest proper lumberyard is out of state.

No, that seems cheap compared to what wood costs over here . Cool to see you are going with it, there are too many suitable neck woods (Ash, Cherry, Walnut to name but three) which arent used very often for any real reason other than tradition.

[Larry Davis]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

Lack of knowledge would be the main answer. I like Santos Mahogany and Dark Phillipine Mahogany for necks, but have used African and Genuine also. Getting to know the woods you want to use will greatly expand your possibilities of what you can offer to a client.

Neither "Santos" mahogany, nor "Philippine" nor "African" mahogany (Khaya) are actually Mahogany (genus Sweitenia). "philippine" mahogany (Shorea spp) include the merantis and luans....weak, brittle and good for veneer faced shelving plywood.

[Musiclogic]

You are quite correct Larry, although [i] disagree(as this is my opinion) with your assessment of the 1 good use for Phillipine as I have seen it used in many successful instruments, furniture, and finish carpentry, it's an opinion more than anything. There are many woods put forth as other commonly named lumbers, Rosewoods come to mind specifically, Teaks, Ebonies(even with 250+ species of). We seem to have associated sales mentality when it comes to wood.

If we had more People like Larry, we would all be much better educated in wood.

[devo_stevo]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

I'd like to use a 1/4" thick purpleheart strip, but I am concerned about doing that because I'll be routing the truss rod slot down the middle, which is a 1/4" wide slot. Since that would basically remove just purpleheart for that 3/8" deep section of neck, it would reduce the glued surface area, and I have a fear that it could reduce the strength of that lamination. Am I correct or paranoid? For that reason, I was going to go with a 3/8" or 1/2" thick purpleheart laminate, so that the entire gluing surface remains in tact.

Since nobody answered this, I will take a stab. When I do my necks, I use a ~3/8" thick board at the center for this very purpose. I don't know that it matters that much but it makes me feel better to not route away the center lamination at the truss rod.

Also, purpleheart is VERY stiff and dense and for this reason, I wouldn't bother with the caron reinforcing. I have built a neck with purpleheat strips and it doesn't move at all. It took about a 1/8 turn of the truss rod to bring the neck straight once I strung it up and tuned it up.

This is all of course IMHO.

[Larry Davis]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

You are quite correct Larry, although [i] disagree(as this is my opinion) with your assessment of the 1 good use for Phillipine as I have seen it used in many successful instruments, furniture, and finish carpentry, it's an opinion more than anything. There are many woods put forth as other commonly named lumbers, Rosewoods come to mind specifically, Teaks, Ebonies(even with 250+ species of). We seem to have associated sales mentality when it comes to wood.

If we had more People like Larry, we would all be much better educated in wood.

You are correct, sir. I was thinking specifically of the "Laun" market lumber more than some of the selected "Meranti" varieties. I have, in fact built beautiful fences from the darker, heavier Meranti salvaged from pallets. It remains brittle in general, but we learn to evaluate each piece of wood "in hand" and not dis or champion whole species. Mahogany (true) is an exceptionally stable wood in general, but this does not take into account trees with internal stress from poor growing conditions, growth defects (like spiral grain) or lumber cut from stressed parts of the bole that get into the market chain. Meranti and some selected Laun were woods of choice for wooden boats like Chris Craft, however not for strenght but cost, stability and other characteristics. "Strength" being the point a timber fails catastrophically as measured by a standardized test. If your wooden boat hull fails catastrophically you have bigger problems than poor wood selection

Well selected mahogany, limba, cedro and other non trad bass neck woods will work fine although carbon or lams of wenge, ebony, rock maple or other might be called for in construction.