More native love..

[LightGroove]

... so I had a great conversation with a very local saw mill and starting discussing wood, building guitars etc. He told me about a 30 year old stack of black walnut hes had seasoning and sold a large portion of (1.40 a ft what)... he's checking on more for me.. after that I discussed maple..his eyes got huge and said hes seen some of the prettiest stuff come through go to waste, im on a quick dial list when the wild stuff as he called it comes through and I can watch em vut it down...

[Jason_A]

That's very cool. I try to buy as much of my wood locally as I can. Last fall I bought a bunch of walnut and cherry from a local guy - cuts it right on his farm, from logs he chops down in his own timbers. The down side was that the wood wasn't as dry as he thought it was. Fortunately that wood went into some bed frames and not a guitar neck. It's really cool to be able to get wood that close to the source, but you do need to be careful who you deal with and their level of competence. I'll leave the remainder of that wood on the shelf for a few years before it goes into any more projects.

So that has given me good reason to continue to buy from more "reputable" sources. I'm fortunate to have quite a few good sized saw mills in my area, and can get a lot of local/domestic woods that have been properly kiln dried and stored in climate controlled buildings.

Back to your original post - black walnut and figured maple are both great woods for building guitars from. You might consider having him keep an eye out for some crotch walnut for you. It can have really great figuring, and would make for some really interesting top sets. Again, getting it dried/seasoned properly is the trick, but if you have the patience, it can be worth the wait.

[tjclem]

you guys are so lucky nothing like that down here. Enjoy......t

[s_mcsleazy]

Originally Posted by tjclem

you guys are so lucky nothing like that down here. Enjoy......t

you could make a bass out of palm trees

i live in glasgow so the best i can hope for is to make a bass out of used johnnys, teenage mothers, track suits, bassball caps and stab wounds

[GrapeApe]

Originally Posted by s_mcsleazy

you could make a bass out of palm trees

i live in glasgow so the best i can hope for is to make a bass out of used johnnys, teenage mothers, track suits, bassball caps and stab wounds

Yeah, but you're able to get a James Johnston Squier Jazz, I'm sure that makes up for it.

[Ruckus_Instrmts]

Originally Posted by s_mcsleazy

you could make a bass out of palm trees

A royal palm fretboard would be pretty slick though finding a piece even that big would be difficult to source.

[Jason_A]

One other interesting thing to note is that if you get woods like "tiger maple" or "curly cherry" from a local saw mill, you can normally get very good prices. Often, it's even less expensive than the higher clear grades. The figured woods tend to be harder to work with, but more importantly most saw mills are primarily interested in volume sales. Cabinet shops, flooring manufacturers, etc all are more interested in consistency than they are in character of the wood, so bland grain is actually better for them.

I get flamed and bird's eye maple for about $4/bdft. Granted, it's not 5A quality and you often have to pick through a big stack to find boards that will work, but it's great wood when you're on a budget.

[Musiclogic]

Originally Posted by tjclem

you guys are so lucky nothing like that down here. Enjoy......t

But Tom, all of those Palmetto's and bayonet Palms.....LOL

[tjclem]

Junk!

[Gard]

Tom, Bill & Doug over at the Guitar Factory have used Camphor from local sources for acoustic guitars with good results, FYI...it IS tough to find good hardwoods in FL, stuff there grows too fast...

[LightGroove]

A side note he also mentioned they avoided darker stained woods in there process b/c they are involved in the wood chip business as well. Apparently darker woods cause streaking when used to create paper. Ive got about6-7 local mills but have only approached this guy...a real cool cat I must say...fingers crossed I get a call he still has a few more board feet of that walnut...

Anyone know where crotch walnut is native..Im only aware of eastern black walnut in my parts.

Also where do these burls, quilts, bird eyes form..meaning when he calls me do I need to ask for a specific cut or look for something on the logs themselves?

[tjclem]

Except for the weight Black Walnut is sweet neck and bodies enjoy....t

[Jason_A]

Originally Posted by LightGroove

Anyone know where crotch walnut is native..Im only aware of eastern black walnut in my parts.

Also where do these burls, quilts, bird eyes form..meaning when he calls me do I need to ask for a specific cut or look for something on the logs themselves?

All of these "figured" woods come from standard species - walnut, maple, etc. The figuring comes from things like stresses on the wood, joints/inclusions, fungus, etc.

"Crotch" walnut (or mahogany, or maple, etc) is from where there's a "crotch" in the tree - i.e. where two branches come together. Often there is unique figuring near that joint, as there are uneven stresses on the wood. Bear in mind that it's probably not wise to use that sort of wood in something like a neck where you want it to be stable, as those stresses remain in the wood and will most likely move around over time. But if you saw it relatively thin and rely on a "core" wood for the stability, it can work great as a top wood.

[FBB Custom]

It's great if you can source your woods that locally -- I am curious where in VA you are, send me a PM if you get a chance.

As Jason said, be careful about moisture content. Sawyers may be expert at milling but not at drying. Rule of thumb is 1 year air dry per 1", but I'd say that is minimum. Kiln dry is a better bet, and if you can be patient and let lumber sit for a while then when it comes time to use it, you'll reap the rewards.

I'm sure everyone here will be very keen on seeing pictures of your visits and the lumber you take home. I plan on heading to a local mill in the next few weeks and I will be sure to take some pictures.

[JoeDeF]

Originally Posted by Jason_A

Crotch walnut (or mahogany, or maple, etc) is from where there's a crotch in the tree - i.e. where two branches come together. Often there is unique figuring near that joint, as there are uneven stresses on the wood.

Yes, and most often that crotch will never make it to the sawmill. From what I understand and have experienced, the wood that is harvested and sent to the mill is the straight trunk before any major branching starts (and sometimes another straight section above the first major branching). Wood at the crotches, as well as especially any limb wood will have uneven stresses (as Jason said) that make it likely to warp or split and therefore unprofitable to mill. So, it ends up as firewood or woodchips instead, despite the possibly beautiful figure it may contain.

If you want some local crotch wood, you have to ask the guy who cuts the tree to save it, and if he is very skilled and has a monster chainsaw with a rip blade and a chainsaw mill (Granberg or similar), he may be able to rough cut you some (or not). But the mill guy won't probably ever see that wood.

If you do find someone to mill you some local crotch wood, you might get a pretty top out of it though; it might be worth the trouble. Then again, it might split while drying....

Good luck with it,

Joe

[Jason_A]

Most of this is a duplication of what Joe just posted, but the Ken Smith site has some interesting info on crotch walnut. Anatomy of Black Tiger

[LightGroove]

Thanks for the link Jason...that shows a lot...im def.more of a visual guy.. I own a solid 20" saw right now...have debated on stepping up when the $$ is right... I have 330 acres to play with so pretty stoked on what I may find in addition to the local mills... I have seen 3 or 4 within 10 miles of me as well that I intend on visiting soon as well as some clearing sites that leave the crotches and stuff behind...this could be a lot of fun.

I live in central Virgina near Lynchburg and in HEAVY logging country.

[tjclem]

Originally Posted by LightGroove

Thanks for the link Jason...that shows a lot...im def.more of a visual guy.. I own a solid 20" saw right now...have debated on stepping up when the $$ is right... I have 330 acres to play with so pretty stoked on what I may find in addition to the local mills... I have seen 3 or 4 within 10 miles of me as well that I intend on visiting soon as well as some clearing sites that leave the crotches and stuff behind...this could be a lot of fun.

I live in central Virgina near Lynchburg and in HEAVY logging country.

you are killing me dude!

[LightGroove]

Hey all,

Would love to keep this thread alive.. Im planning on renewing my membership to post pics in the coming days..Anyways been a busy couple of weeks...stumbles across a weird looking tree that had died..I cut her down and later found out it was a 50+ yr old crab apple (barb wire got her)... not a lot going on but found some spalting I think..will post pics...

So today I went down to my local river/creek and found tons of fallen timber..river birch, sycamore mainly.

I decided to cut into the birch which was actually laying partially in the creek...this has to have some of the prettiest looking grain or whatever you call it ive ever seen..it makes a rose..not sure if this is normal or part if the decay process but its beautiful..anyways will post pics as stated..

Lastly anyone know the Janka of river birch..im assuming fairly soft by what Im finding already dead but think it would make a cool top.

[mazareth]

Check out this link: Janka hardness