My Defretting Diary

micahbell · #1 10-18-2010, 03:56 PM

Here is how a guy with absolutely no guitar working knowledge defrets a bass!

Step 1. Rip out frets. I didn't have anything really legit to do it with, but I *did* get a knife for my birthday a week ago. I forgot to take a picture at this step, so I did after - it's not shown here but I did tape off the board.

Step 2. Assemble your materials. Here is everything I've used so far, except for a straight edge that I found later.

Step 3: Clean out the fret slots, sand the finish off the board, yadda yadda yadda. Boring. No picture.

Step 4: Start filling the frets! I wasn't sure what was easiest to work with here, so I put the grain both ways. FYI - it's sideways, not up and down. I did two here because I wanted to just try two, sand them down and see how it was before I went on. Also, it gets cold at night here... I recommend doing this job during the day if you're working outside.

Step 4: Finish filling all the frets and cut down the veneer. This took me about two and a half Wilco albums to do, with a few coffee and smoke breaks. You're going to want to have lots of coffee and cigarettes on hand.

Step 5: Sand it all down and make it nice and smooth. Here are the first two frets I did sanded down.

Step 6: ???

Step 7: Profit!

I still have to epoxy it, but I bought the wrong kind so I have to wait until I can get down to the store again to return it and buy some new stuff. I figured stringing it up to play for a moment or two would be alright, I'm using tape wounds and couldn't really see damage being done... by the way, it sounds insanely awesome. With the proper EQ I get a very close upright sound, which surprised me with the active EMGs and all.

Final tips/advice/stuff:
-Read as many threads as you can find on people who did this, make your own thread asking questions, and call a few repair guys in your area.
-Veneer sucks to work with. If you are having troubles with it, don't get discouraged, you'll work it out.
- Some of my veneer broke as I was trying to glue it in place. I freaked out at first, but it's not an issue - just go with it and glue some more back in place. Once it's sanded down you won't notice it was multiple pieces of veneer.
-Don't use a knife to rip your frets.

And that's where I'm at! I had a lot of fun doing this.

engedi1 · #2 10-18-2010, 04:17 PM

Looks good man! Careful with epoxy! I have really screwed up my fretless bass as it is hard to apply it evenly. If it sounds awesome with the tapewounds and you are only concerned about wear, you might not want to epoxy it which will certain brighten the tone into Jaco territory. You might just want to apply many coats of linseed oil or something similar to toughen it up. I bet that would last forever with tapewounds or flats.

micahbell · #3 10-18-2010, 04:38 PM

Really? If I didn't have to epoxy it, that would be great. I'm going to have to change the strings on it - I love these ones but they are actually for a short scale and the red winding comes into the first fret on the E string (I found them in a case, they are la bellas and had been sitting there since the 70s. they said long scale but when I strung them up I found they weren't) - so when I change them I'll probably put on flats. I thought either way I would have to epoxy it but if I could tung it or use linseed oil, I would love that.

engedi1 · #4 10-18-2010, 05:08 PM

I would recommend the Tung oil approach and stringing it with TI flats. They should offer little to no fingerboard wear. Or you can get a great deal on new labella tapewounds from Carvin of all places, about 1/2 of what you would pay elsewhere.
Actually, I had really good results with my first fretless bass using polyurethane, which flows better than epoxy and is much easier to apply evenly. I used Varathane which home depot no longer carries, and it worked really well. Sounded fantastic with nickel rounds. Minwax is crap, don't even consider it. Really good poly, or spar varnish will help prevent wear and shouldn't be tough to apply. Epoxy is unforgiving, and can screw up your fingerboard permanently. I would have a pro epoxy it before trying it myself again.

micahbell · #5 10-20-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engedi1

I would recommend the Tung oil approach and stringing it with TI flats. They should offer little to no fingerboard wear. Or you can get a great deal on new labella tapewounds from Carvin of all places, about 1/2 of what you would pay elsewhere.

Alright, I ended up going with the tung oil.
I checked the Carvin site, and I'm only seeing TI acoustic strings - am I missing something?
Why would you go TI, by the way? For flats I have only ever used Chromes. I liked them, and they are cheap compared to TIs - whats the difference?

And here will be my last progress update for a month probably.
I bought some tung oil and just applied my first coat.
I talked to a local repair dude who has done a lot of conversions (a few that I have played) and I trust him. He recommended applying two coats a day for a week, then letting it sit for two or three weeks.

I'm also going to have to change out the bridge. The one thats on here is pretty big. It's set as low as it can be, but the action is still pretty high. I have an old jazz bass bridge that is a bit lower so I might throw that on and see how it does.

I have to do this inside, as it gets fairly cold out already, and I don't have much work space so I threw some poly on my CP70 and BAM! insta-workbench!

Visti · #6 10-20-2010, 04:55 PM

Maybe you can shim the neck instead of installing a new bridge?

PaulNYC · #7 10-20-2010, 05:21 PM

Instead of changing the bridge, what about shimming up the neck? Didn't see the post above. Great minds think alike.

engedi1 · #8 10-20-2010, 05:35 PM

Strings are of course a very personal matter, I just happen to like TI Flats! Of course many on TB love chromes but TI flats have more midrange and more sustain than chromes, and I think, are a better fit for a fretless. Of course, I prefer TI flats over Chromes on any bass, fretted or otherwise so I am biased in that direction!

micahbell · #9 10-20-2010, 11:26 PM

Shimming the neck is no good - it's a neck through bass. Thanks for the advice though, I don't think I would have thought of that anyway.

engedi1 - I think I'll give the TIs a try out first - some midrange is what I'm looking for. Right now I have all the mid frequency sliders on my preamp way up to get the tone I'm after. I'm sure it'll be different with flats from my tape wounds, but either way, I'd like to start off with more mid range.
My main concern was cash before... I was unemployed and didn't want to spend a bunch of money on strings that weren't that much better. But, I got a job today at a guitar shop, so that makes things a bit nicer.

engedi1 · #10 10-21-2010, 07:11 AM

cool Micah, I hope you love em! Quick question-how did you apply the tung oil? did you wipe it on with a rag, or foam brush?

shackled · #11 10-21-2010, 07:21 AM

Nice work!
And congrats on the new job.

PaulNYC · #12 10-21-2010, 07:34 AM

bassingeorge · #13 11-15-2010, 10:17 PM

Hello!
I'm a noob trying to defrett my Acoustic Bass...I have a few questions...
What type of poly should I use? Water or Oil based?
Should I brush it on...or just get a rattle can?
Thanks!

engedi1 · #14 11-16-2010, 05:15 PM

If you are going to use poly, only use oil based. It is not hard to work with, you just have to clean it up or cut it with mineral spirits. I used "varathane professional" with very good results.

bassingeorge · #15 11-16-2010, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engedi1

If you are going to use poly, only use oil based. It is not hard to work with, you just have to clean it up or cut it with mineral spirits. I used "varathane professional" with very good results.

There is the spray can version and the quart that I can brush on...Which to use?

micahbell · #16 11-22-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engedi1

cool Micah, I hope you love em! Quick question-how did you apply the tung oil? did you wipe it on with a rag, or foam brush?

Just wiped it on with a rag.

By the way, I'm loving the bass. I ended up doing about eight coats only. Everybody I talked to said the other method was way too much and not necessary. I talked to the tech I originally talked to again and he agreed - the really long process with a million coats was if I was doing the entire neck, and I decided to just do the fretboard.
I've played it at a bunch of shows and am having lots of fun.

I have also decided not to go Fralins, for now anyway. I am liking the tone of the EMG more and more as I get used to it, and I found somebody at work who had a jazz EMG set, so he sold me the bridge for $50 and I'm going to put that in.
I haven't decided if I'm going to rout it myself or get my tech to do it yet, though.

micahbell · #17 03-05-2011, 12:19 PM

Update:

The bridge pickup is in! I decided to get my guitar tech to route it for me.
If it was covered by a pick guard I would have done it myself, but it's a rear routed body and I didn't want it to be gross. He did an excellent job with it, then I watched him as he wired it all up, which was helpful.

I am really digging it. My bass amp is at my jam space, so I've just been playing it through my guitar amp, but I'm finding I am using the jazz bass pickup way more then I thought I would.

My only complaint is that I had to order the specific EMG stacked pot, and the knobs that come with it are hard to use. When you turn one, the other turns with it. Is that a common problem, or is it just these knobs?

The action was pretty high when I took it home, so I lowered the nut with a jigsaw blade and a file, lowered the saddles and adjusted the truss rod a bit, and it's doing much better.

Until I found another problem, that is... after a few hours of playing I noticed the action was a bit weird and there was a rattle I couldn't find. After a long time of holding all the metal as I played to diagnose the problem I found it - the truss rod had rattled itself loose.

Eff.

I have been thinking to myself that if I'm playing it lots then this summer I will have the fingerboard replaced with a solid piece of maple, so at that point I guess I'll just have a new rod put in.
I left a message with the luthier friend who I was going to get to do the fringerboard to see what this will run me.