my first job - Defret

[Fishbrain]

I don't know if anybody has read my thread in the basses forum but I think I'm going to defret one of my basses. It's a Rockbass Corvette that looks like this



I've read a bit about this on the internet and from what I can gather I need to tape either side of each fret, heat with a soldering iron and pull out carefully.

I don't know what to put in each gap though? I want subtle lines (probably black). Do I need some kind of filler or do I need to put wood in the fret slots? I'd also like to give it one of them high gloss finishes.

Any ideas?

[Rodent]

I'm in process of wrapping up a lined fretless conversion for a B&B 5-string neck. Here's what I can share:

* I used the StewMac fret pullers for the first time - never has it been easier to pull frets with no major fingerboard damage!


* I leveled the fingerboard down to bare wood utilizing a StewMac extruded radius beam. the client wanted a radius change, and this was the ticket to do this with precision



* I trimmed 22 individual veneer strips and put them into my fret wire holder so that they were in the correct order. I cleaned the fret slots and then filled them with a Walnut veneer I purchased from a eBay seller over a year ago as part of another project. the veneer was just the right thickness to slide into the slots with epoxy on it

* once everything had cured, I used a small and very sharp chisel to trim off most of the excess veneer material, scraped the fingerboard as level as could be, and then re-leveled the fingerboard to clean up all of the excess veneer material. I then used Super Glue to fill in any small voids in the fret slots. to get the new fingerboard perfetcly uniform, I repeated the Super Glue / re-leveling cycle several times until I could close my eyes and not physically feel where a fret slot had been.

* for this job, I also stripped the neck of its original gloss poly finish, and have 10 of the 20 coats of Tru Oil applied to all but the fingerboard. once I have finished with all of the increasingly finer sanding steps I then apply the remaining coats with a technique similar to how one would French Polish a wooden object.

* as soon as the weather warms up a little here, I will be applying several coats of epoxy for a glassed fingerboard.


I have not documented this process with any images, so I have nothing to share visually. I'm sure others here have documented this in previous threads, so you may also want to do a search and see what you can dig up

all the best,

R

[Oratorio]

Just be really careful about it!! Me and my friend practically ruined my bass. Sure, it's playable, but not much .. :X Not like I can ever use it for anything except for firewood. Sigh.

[ZombieGhosTrain]

There is a gigantic thread in the setup/repair section. A sticky I do believe. I pulled frets out with pliers, and filled with wood putty. I didn't have a radius block, but sanded by hand and did my best. I did it this way because it was a $50 dollar bass, you may obviously want to invest in the right tools. For such a rough job, mine turned out very playable rather easily. With tools, yours would be even better.

[Vin_MM_Sabre_79]

I've used a standard wood putty on my acoustic/electric for fret lines. Works fine.

If you dont have the fret pulling tools in Rodents thread you can do it by very carefully using a blade to run under each side of the full length of each fret to loosen the glue (I also used a soldering iron... and a small spray of water is supposed to help). Lift them out with the best pair of pliers you can lay your hands on by pulling evenly from both ends. ie: lfit a little bit, move down the fret, lift a bit, move to the middle... etc...Dont peel them off from one end or the teeth will chip the rosewood.

Fill frets and sand - the long bar used in Rodents post will help keep you from creating hills and valleys which will cause buzz. I suppose you could probably also look into a plasterers sanding board too. Cheap and readily available.

[Fishbrain]

is a small hand held electric sander a good or bad idea? also if i want black lines what am i best filling with?

[PilbaraBass]

Originally Posted by Fishbrain

is a small hand held electric sander a good or bad idea? also if i want black lines what am i best filling with?

bad idea using power tools to sand the board....


black lines...ebony is an option, black vinyl will work well, too

[Fishbrain]

do u know where i can pick up either of these? or would using some kind of dyed filler be an option?

[Rodent]

see if you have something similar to Woodcraft in the UK. here in the US, they are an excellent source for materials.

you could also view the veneer inventory at www.lmii.com.

there are several veneer sellers on eBay as well

when veneer shopping, you'll be wanting to look for something in the .025" - .03" thickness range, as a fret slot is typically cut at .023" if my memory serves me correctly.

it is also best to install the veneers (wood or whatever material) with a non water based gluing agent. introducing water into the slots will cause the wood to swell, and when the glue dries it will shrink ... potentially causing a bow in your neck that is in the same direction that the string tension pulls ... not a good thing if this happens too severely

all the best,

R

[Son of Magni]

Originally Posted by Fishbrain

is a small hand held electric sander a good or bad idea? also if i want black lines what am i best filling with?

You can also get ebonized maple veneer for this. They sell it as headstock lam material. (Either stewmac or lmii I forget which.)

[Fishbrain]

so am i best staying away from wood fillers?

[Rodent]

so am i best staying away from wood fillers?

IMO, yes

if this was being worked in my shop, yes


... but, it's your bass ... and just because I would do this mod in a specific manner doesn't mean that others would do it the same way. you need to weigh the recommendations on how to do this against the perceived experience level of those providing you recommendations and then make a call as to which path is best for you to take

when I look at this kind of a mod, I view it with an eye for how I would do this for a client who trusted their bass to me to do a job that is going to retain itself for years to come ... I'm not looking to see how I can do a mod in such a manner that it is the cheapest way possible, and if it doesn't work out o well. I'm also not looking to see how I can do this in such a way as a means to justify running up the biggest bill I can find possible, either.

keep this in mind - if you do the work and mess it up, it's going to cost you a ton more to have a pro fix it for you. say a pro would charge you $100 to do this mod professionally, but you decide to save the $$ and do it yourself ... creating an unplayable mess that needs to be fixed by someone who knows what they're doing ... it's going to cost a whole lot more to undo the slot filling and then install the lines correctly then it would have to simply have them installed correctly in the first place.

if you have the skills to do this correctly on your very first attempt, then definitely do this yourself ... but if you don't have the skills (I suspect this to be true because of your electric sander question) then it'll be less expensive in the long run to simply have a qualified person do this job for you.

and if you just have to have a fretless bass, you could always look for a used Brice (or similar) for about the same $$$ as it would cost you to professionally de-fret and line your Corvette

just my thoughts ...

[saxofunk]

Originally Posted by ZombieGhosTrain

There is a gigantic thread in the setup/repair section. A sticky I do believe.

Word.

Originally Posted by Fishbrain

is a small hand held electric sander a good or bad idea? also if i want black lines what am i best filling with?

Bad. Bad bad bad bad bad. Hand sanding only. If you want to preserve the fretboard radius, invest a few bucks in a proper sanding block.

Originally Posted by Fishbrain

so am i best staying away from wood fillers?

Filler is fine. Generally (I think it's safe to say) luthiers will use filler strips of wood or plastic. They already have the skills and tools in place to do that right. For a DIYer, widening the slots can cause more harm than good. A good epoxy filler will do the job nicely and save you the trouble of going after your neck with saw blades or router bits.

For more on my experience (and to see some evidence of why slot widening should be done with the right skills and tools), there's a link in my sig to a page I made about my fretless conversion project. I'm a DIY hack who will use filler the next time around.

[Rodent]

here's an image of a lined fretless conversion project I am currently working



Earlier I pulled the frets, removed the finish on the entire neck, leveled the fingerboard, cleaned and filled the slots with a Wenge veneer, re-leveled the fingerboard, etc ...

this is now getting its first coat of epoxy. I need to level the first coat, and then apply a second application tomorrow afternoon. by early next week I should be finish leveling this and sanding it out in prep for buffing and polishing

all the best,

R

[PilbaraBass]

the problem with using fillers....

in addition to stability issues....

wood fillers travel into chips and crevasses and don't make for nice clean fret lines....

veneer is more effort, for sure, but IMO, you can't have a pro job without using veneer.