My first major bass mod (well slightly major)

[Geothermal]

Looking through this forum gives you GAS for many a thing, a MusicMan, an acoustic, a Warwick, a Spector and most recently a fretless. I have an old starter bass that NEVER gets played and seeing as I can't turn it into any of those nice basses I've dreamed of (and after looking at those excellent tutorials that made it look somewhat doable for a lazy 16 year old with weeks of spare time and little cash) I decided to make it fretless.

The bass I've decided to mutilate is a Peavey Milestone III 4-string with 2 j-style pickups in the regular configuration. Rosewood fretboard and 21 frets.



I masking taped up the frets to start with. First I tried the heating the frets method, but found it didn't make it any easier so I just did it cold. I used a small rather flimsy tool that I had lying around from my Warhammer days, which allowed to to get under the frets to loosen them and then used a small screwdriver to lever them up and out with a surprisingly small amount of damage to the fretboard itself, leaving it (hopefully) perfectly playable. I then used the mystery tool to clean the gunk out of the fret slots.

I got to the point when there was 5 frets to go and my mystery tool broke on me and it cut me :/ which went with 2 small other cuts I had received due to carelessness. I will remedy this tomorrow as soon as I find something suitable to continue the job. I will also file down the slots in the nut closer/touching the fretboard to get a better action, as I have seen that some people choose to do this when converting/creating fretlesses. I will also do some sanding aswell, to make the areas around the frets smooth again. I will also get a hold of some sort of oil to finish off the fretboard after I fill in the slots. What can people recommend to fill the slots and to finish the fretboard? I assume I will not need some epoxy glossy finish to keep the fretboard in good knick, as it won't get played a terrible amount I wouldn't have thought.

Sometime in the future I'll get y'all some pictures of the semi-finished and finished results.

Music listened to during today's session:
Liquid Tension Experiment - LTE 2
Coheed & Cambria - Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV, Volume I: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness

[scottbass]

Some use epoxy to fill the fret slots, some use wood filler. Epoxy is more permanent but very difficult to sand once its hardened, so it's important to level it while it's still wet. It's also almost impossible to remove from your fretboard if you get sloppy. Epoxy won't take a stain, so if you want it colored you should color it before you apply it. Wood filler will sand down after its hardened. It is easier to clean off your fretboard if you get sloppy. It will take a stain, although it might not end up the color you think it will, so you should test it first. Some types will also swell and shrink with changing humidity conditions, even after it's completely hardened.

If it were me, I would use epoxy and be very careful. But many others use wood filler. And others still use small pieces of wood - either the same wood as your fretboard or a contrasting color - epoxied into the slots. Now THAT'S a lot of work, but you can sand them down to a perfect fit and they will look killer, IMHO.

[scottbass]

P.S. Get a tetanus shot. Cutting yourself with old tools of unknown origin could mess you up real bad. It's hard to eat soup when you have lockjaw. Also, you might want to hold off on filing the nut until after you put it back together without the frets and try it out first. Easy to do - hard to undo.

[SDB Guitars]

I use wood veneers to make lines in my fretless basses (if I make lines)... these are birch veneeds that are laid in, then saturated with CA glue (thin superglue):

[Geothermal]

Thanks for the input guys.
My sister woke me up early this morning so I have been pondering over it in bed as I try to get back to sleep ^^. Superglue did cross my mind, just because it sticks anything, especially fingers to eachother. I don't know what I'm going to use to fill it unless I can get some thin wood for next to nothing, but I'll see what I can do, dig around the garage/shed and I'll probably find something suitable.

[darth-bass]

Originally Posted by scottbass

And others still use small pieces of wood - either the same wood as your fretboard or a contrasting color - epoxied into the slots. Now THAT'S a lot of work, but you can sand them down to a perfect fit and they will look killer, IMHO.

Im ripping frets out as I type this (taking a break at the moment) on an ibanez gsr 190 I have.

Question. I like your idea to fill the slots with wood-would toothpicks work? Thier wood (broadly defined and easily sanded down. have got some elmers carpenter wood that I can use as filler/bonder. Then I could sand it down. I plan to coat the board with epoxy to help keep everything in place. Dos this sound like it could work?

[scottbass]

Originally Posted by darth-bass

Im ripping frets out as I type this (taking a break at the moment) on an ibanez gsr 190 I have.

Question. I like your idea to fill the slots with wood-would toothpicks work? Thier wood (broadly defined and easily sanded down. have got some elmers carpenter wood that I can use as filler/bonder. Then I could sand it down. I plan to coat the board with epoxy to help keep everything in place. Dos this sound like it could work?

At first I said to myself "No way - toothpicks are too soft. They'll dent & deform if you depress the string on them." Then I read the part about coating it with epoxy. Yeah, sure, that will probably work. The only concern is that the soft toothpicks will compress over time, resulting in increasing neck bow necessitating more and more truss rod tension and eventually reaching the end of adjustment. I don't know if this will happen or not. The toothpicks might be strong enough to resist this - I just don't know. Small strips of hardwood (maple, rosewood) would definitely be stronger, however. Or maybe enough epoxy will fill the slots to structurally strengthen the toothpicks?

[darth-bass]

Do you think that I would be better off just filling in the slots with straight epoxy or carpenters glue? To me I would think that Toothpicks are stronger than either (well probably not the epoxy but they would sure look alot better)-They are certainly stronger then the "crazy carpet" rubber stuff that nateo used in the tallkbass "how to defret tutorial" but then he coated the crazy carpet stuff with cyanoacrylate so perhaps that seeps into the crazy carpet stuff and strengthens it. Maybe toothpicks saturated in superglue would be similar? What is something that I can saturate the toothpicks with when I put them in the slot that would strenghten them?

The size and shape of toothpicks is simply perfect for this application so long as you have mentioned, they do not compress/warp over time. Epoxying the fretbaord seems like a definate must.

[Geothermal]

I've removed all the frets on mine and restrang it just to test action and that. This is the first time I've ever played a fretless and I'm almost a convert. REALLY enjoying it.

I've got some questions on epoxy though. Where could I get some? How easy is it to apply? How much is it likely to cost? (GBP please ) Basic things as I'm thinking I probably should run with that.

[darth-bass]

Your local hardware store would be the best bet--People here seem to really like the system three epoxy. Check out the how to epoxy a fretboard thread for detailed instructions of how to go about it:
Long Awaited Epoxy Photo Tutorial
What did you fill your slots with once you took the frets out?

[Arx]

I used Bondo for mine. It worked great. easy to sand too.
I finished it with superglue, which also worked quite nicely. If you look around a bit you'll see some tutorials. a $5 bottle of glue from the hardware store was enough to finish it up to a nice shine.

[darth-bass]

Originally Posted by Arx

I used Bondo for mine. It worked great. easy to sand too.
I finished it with superglue, which also worked quite nicely. If you look around a bit you'll see some tutorials. a $5 bottle of glue from the hardware store was enough to finish it up to a nice shine.

Heck that aint bad-You used superglue ? I would be afraid that the finish would crack and dull over time-Any sign of that happening? How did you apply it to the fretboard err I mean fingerboard? A brush?

[Arx]

Originally Posted by darth-bass

Heck that aint bad-You used superglue ? I would be afraid that the finish would crack and dull over time-Any sign of that happening? How did you apply it to the fretboard err I mean fingerboard? A brush?

Yep, plain old loctite brand super glue. No signs of any kind of deterioration yet. It actually looks better in real life too. the camera flash really brings out some barely visible flaws. I've been using it with Rotosound Tru-Bass 88 strings which are nylon wrapped.. I can't say how durable it is in that regard. I played with it briefly with some roundwound, and normal steel flatwounds (maybe a week) It didn't show any problems in that time, and I don't expect it ever will as long as I'm using the nylon ones. I think it's pretty hard though. Next best thing to epoxy, from what I've read.

It's pretty easy to apply. Sand the fingerboard nice and smooth first. I think I did to about 380 grit IIRC. I put on a few drops, and quickly spread it around with the back (non-abrasive side) of a piece of fine grit waterproof sandpaper. When you're spreading it, don't stop moving or it'll stick. Also, if it starts getting tacky, just leave it, you can fill in gaps with the next coat. Let it harden for a couple hours, and repeat until you run out of glue. I think I had a half dozen coats. It looks like crap, since it won't be even at all. Sand it until it looks good.

Oh, don't glue your fingers to the bass either. This seems like obvious advice, but I had one close call. went to move it a bit, and accidentally touched the glue. Reacted just in time and got my finger off before it cured up completely. (A couple 10ths of a second)

You'll need a radius block for the sanding. I made one by taping a large piece of 40 grit sand paper to the neck and then just rubbing a block of wood against it until the profile matched. This took me more time than the rest of the job though. You might be better off just buying one.

Look through the other pics in that directory if you want. you can pretty much see the whole process. The pics are really big though.

-Nick

[darth-bass]

Well all the frets are out, I sanded the fingerboard a little (needs more work though I think I am gonna get that radius block before I do too much more), next is finding some good material to fill the slots with. Epoxy can be used in that application correct? Should I be thinking of using something better?

If I go the epxoy route I could use it to not only fill the slots but coat the fingerbaord as well - Thus killing two birds with one stone? Am I mistaken in this? Can epoxy be use to fill in the slots? If yes im going that route.

I actually sawed away part of the headstock today too to give a bader-ass look to the bass than the boring shape it came with (plus I hate the chessy looking "gio Ibanez" logo [all gone now!] and spraypainted it red to match the body of the bass. It looks pretty mean.
I am having a blast doing this mod but I fear the hardest part is coming up next!!!

Im done for today though.

[scottbass]

Originally Posted by darth-bass

If I go the epxoy route I could use it to not only fill the slots but coat the fingerbaord as well - Thus killing two birds with one stone?

You are correct.

[darth-bass]

Originally Posted by scottbass

You are correct.

Epoxy it is then! Is there a cheapo way to get around having to buy a radius block? I cannot find one that is reasonably priced. Any techniques people know of in order to sand the fingerboard but not messing it up without having to get a radius block? One of the previous post in this thread mentioned taping the sandpaper to the fretboard then using a any old block to sand it down-but that was for locktight superglue. What are good some techniques to sand a fretboard down without a radius block when you go the epoxy route?

P.S. Thanks for eveyone who has chimed in the talkbass community has really helped me get the nerve up tp do this.

[tbone409]

i have the exact same bass...
and it doesn't see much use...
mmm...

[Arx]

Originally Posted by darth-bass

Epoxy it is then! Is there a cheapo way to get around having to buy a radius block? I cannot find one that is reasonably priced. Any techniques people know of in order to sand the fingerboard but not messing it up without having to get a radius block? One of the previous post in this thread mentioned taping the sandpaper to the fretboard then using a any old block to sand it down-but that was for locktight superglue. What are good some techniques to sand a fretboard down without a radius block when you go the epoxy route?

P.S. Thanks for eveyone who has chimed in the talkbass community has really helped me get the nerve up tp do this.

The radius block thing has nothing to do with the super glue, or epoxy.

Basically I just used the curve of the neck (at the wider end) with some sandpaper taped to it abrasive side out. then you can just rub the block of wood back and forth on it until it duplicates the radius on the neck.

You're using the neck as an inverse radius sanding block, to make yourself a radius sanding block.

I warn you though, it's a lot of work.

Big-ass picture:
http://arx.ca/fretless/IMG_0613.JPG

[Geothermal]

Originally Posted by tbone409

i have the exact same bass...
and it doesn't see much use...
mmm...

Go for it I haven't looked back that's for sure. As long as you have the means to do it that is, check the tutorials, theyre very helpful.

I haven't had the means to finish mine yet though, fretless but holes are unfilled and the fingerboard unfinished, I know I shouldn't really play it unfinished but it's just so much fun

[Arx]

Oh yeah... I've also heard of just using a soft sanding block, or one of those sanding sponges. If you're careful putting on the epoxy/bondo/superglue and only need light sanding, you can get away with it, or even just using your fingers.

If you're sloppy like me, you'll be taking off enough material that you'll want a proper block.