neck with no truss rod..carbon/graphite bars only

[dlmarquez]

I'm extremely curious about the Vigier style of neck. No truss rods, just carbon/graphite bars for stiffeners. I'd never consider this in a thru neck, but for a bolt on it seems that there might be virtues to this..it seems to me it would certainly change the sonic properties of the neck..instead of a metal rod vibrating within a small cavity in the neck, there would be a solid structure of wood and carbon bonded together. That seems logically to me to be something that would transmit vibrations in a very different manner. Does anyone here have experience with such a neck?
Any ideas on where to source the carbon/graphite rods?
Thanks

[pilotjones]

Without trying to sound harsh, I'd recommend that you try a search on threads here on the same subject. While it's entirely a matter of opinion and preference, there's a reason that Vigier is the only company to offering this construction that stayed with it.

[Freddels]

The Klein guitars have no truss or anything else.

[radii]

There is a german guitar builder on the gearbuilder.de forum, that claims that a 1/2" X 1/2" carbon rod should be sufficent and make a truss rod redundant.
I personally always felt that carbon fiber does nothing for me, but I've only used smaller stock that felt flimsy anyway.
Give it a try and let us know how it comes out.

[pilotjones]

OK, before we get any further: the purpose of a truss rod is not to reinforce a neck (although it might do that also, depending on the type and installation); it conteracts the forward bow produced by the strings, in an adjustable manner, thus producing an adjustable relief profile.

A neck that is simply reinforced will simply result in a certain non-user-variable relief profile, resulting from construction, string tension and ambient conditions.

A neck that contains a truss rod, with or without any other structural additions, will have a user-variable relief profile, resulting from construction, string tension, ambient conditions, and the adjustment on the truss rod.

[ped]

Originally Posted by pilotjones

there's a reason that Vigier is the only company to offering this construction that stayed with it.

What might that be?

I have three Vigier basses and whilst it is impossible to compare them to a 'truss rodded' instrument directly (there are lots of different ideas on these basses so without the same bass with a truss rod, you are going in circles) I love mine to bits. One of mine is an early series 2 version which is 100% graphite weave from 1988 and the other two have the newer series 3 necks which are a mixture of carbon and maple. They have equal strength to the 100% carbon neck because the carbon itself is very dense, ~75% so overall the neck is stiffer and stronger.

If you have any questions or want to hear some clips please ask. As with anything like this, a lot rests on the quality of the construction than anything else. There are bad wooden necks, bad graphite necks and so on.

Cheers
ped

[ped]

Oh and one more thing, the construction is quite interesting. Using the series 3 bass as an example, the rods go all the way through the body and stop in front of the bridge pickup. This gives the pickups some room to breathe with the maple/alder/maple body (possibly, who knows) and seems to add some warmth. The maple neck itself runs to the back of the instrument. here is a picture (the carbon rods disappear from view on the back side of the bass, but you can see from the second pic where they stop)

ped

[pilotjones]

Originally Posted by ped

What might that be?

Due to customer demand for adjustability, Modulus and BassLab both offer truss rods (standard on all Modulus). Even Wishnevsky offers them now also. Not trying to put Vigier down in any way. I'd love to see one in person.

[radii]

Originally Posted by ped

Oh and one more thing, the construction is quite interesting. Using the series 3 bass as an example, the rods go all the way through the body and stop in front of the bridge pickup. This gives the pickups some room to breathe with the maple/alder/maple body (possibly, who knows) and seems to add some warmth. The maple neck itself runs to the back of the instrument. here is a picture (the carbon rods disappear from view on the back side of the bass, but you can see from the second pic where they stop)

ped

I always thought that Vigier basses looked killer. They had their own pickups back in the 80's, when almost everybody else was using Bartolinis, their own electronics package etc.
Plus, I'm partial to big headstocks anyway ...
I played one at a trade show in the late 80's but can't quite remember the sound and feel of it. It had a full graphite neck and a blue see-through finish. Very impressive to a teenager

Checking their website though, it seems they have turned into a 95% guitar company with only a few 4-string bass models

[ped]

Hi mate,

Thanks for the comments.

The website should be updated soon as they have JUST launched a new series 4 Passion and Arpege bass which this time has a bolt on neck and some more interesting electronics. There should be some info there soon, but there is a press release in the news section you can read. The final specs are still not 100% final but they are a good approximation of what the final models will be like.

The decision to change to a bolt on neck was purely to bring the bass to a slightly larger market regarding price, and to create an exclusivity to the other models. They like to innovate and mix things up over there!

The benedetti pickups are one of the best things about the Vigier basses. they are amazingly full and rich sounding.

here is a picture of the headstock, just for you ;0)



or even:



Cheers
ped

[radii]

Yummy !!!
Is that a fretless with a stainless-steel fretboard ?

[ped]

Yes it is, a wonderful instrument. I have lots of pictures of her and lots of sound clips but I wonder if that would be de-railing the thread too much?

[GregHolmes]

Just to confirm what pilotjones is saying: Truss rods provide adjustability.

Strong necks can be made without truss rods, but you will not be able to adjust the neck relief if you change to different string guages.

In BassLab instruments, the truss rod is embedded in the composite material, so it does not vibrate within a cavity in the neck.