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  #1  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:43 AM
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Nitro-Cell Lacquer Finish Schedule/Tutorial

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I've received a number of inquiries about the finish on my Noah. Here is the detailed finishing method I used.

To achieve the results pictured below, do this:

1. Sand bare wood to 220.
Fill voids, etc., with Z-Poxy (not to be confused with epoxy resin glue). Z-Poxy is primarily a resin leveller/filler, not primarily an adhesive.
Sand to 220 again. Z-Poxy is available from LMI

2. Shoot 3 coats McFadden's Vinyl Sealer/Washcoat 30 minutes apart.
Lightly sand to 400 (Do not sand through the Sealer) THIS STEP IS CRITICAL TO ACHIEVING A FINISH THAT WILL REMAIN ADHERED TO THE INSTRUMENT FOR YEARS TO COME. DON'T SKIP IT.

3. Shoot color coats as needed. Do not sand the color coats.

4. Shoot 3 coats McFadden' clear nitro-cellulous lacquer 1-2 hours between shoots.
Wait 24 hours.
Sand/level with 220 or so. STAY AWAY FROM ANY/ALL EDGES. DO NOT SAND THROUGH THE FINISH. JUST A LIGHT LEVELING AT THIS STEP IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED.

5. Shoot 3 coats McFadden' clear nitro-cellulous lacquer 1-2 hours between shoots.
Wait 24 hours.
Sand/level with 400 or so. STAY AWAY FROM ANY/ALL EDGES

6. Shoot 3 coats McFadden' clear nitro-cellulous lacquer 1-2 hours between shoots.
Wait 24 hours.
Sand/level with 600 or so. STAY AWAY FROM ANY/ALL EDGES

7. Repeat step 6 as many times as you feel is necessary. A variety of factors too numerous to list can influence this decision. The bass pictured below ended up with 27 coats of clear. Don't let the number fool you . . . a lot comes back off with each leveling procedure.

8. After your final turn at step 6, be sure that you level the finish to 800 or so thoroughly. THEN HANG THE INSTRUMENT UP FOR A MINIMUM OF 14 DAYS TO CURE. THE MORE COATS APPLIED, THE LONGER THE CURE. Go take up Road Cycling and learn to suffer long, you'll need it for the final stages of finishing below.

9. FINAL FINISHING PROCEDURE. Up till now, we've been using over the counter 3M wet/dry sandpaper, using a wet (not soaking wet, just keep the paper unloaded) process. From now on, use Micro-Mesh abrasives along with a mister/spray bottle that has water with 3 or 4 drops of liquid dish soap per pint.

Get out a raft of your favorite CD's and put them on.

Start the coffee pot.

And begin:

with Micro-Mesh begin polishing the finish with 1500, 1800, 2400, 3200, 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000, 12,000 in that order. Micro-Mesh is available from LMI or direct from them. Use the provided soft-block to sand with. At around 4000 or 6000 the finish will begin to go high-gloss on you. Keep going through 8000 and 12,000

10. After you've gone through all the rubbing above, and have run out of CD's to listen to, you are ready to buff.

I use Menzerna Fine for the first pass, and Menzerna Ultra-Fine for the final pass.

I prefer to use a buffer running at around 800 rpm, altho I also have a 1725rpm buffer.

RANDOM NOTES:

MIST THE ABRASIVE, WIPE CLEAN ON A HANDY TOWEL, MIST ABRASIVE AGAIN AND RUBB. Don't mist the finish (apples & oranges; do what you want; this is how I do it).

SAND IN ONE DIRECTION ONLY. Do not use a circular pattern. Do not cross-hatch each grade.

Do not move up to the next finer grade of abrasive until you have completely removed the scratch pattern from the previous grade.

Occasionally wipe the sanding residue off the instrument. I like to use the blue paper shop towels by Scott. They are soft, lint-free, and very absorbant. They clean the sanding residue off nicely. ALWAYS CLEAN THE RESIDUE OFF OF THE FINISH BETWEEN EACH GRADE OF ABRASIVE.

The finer the grade you use, the less water you mist. Use your intuition, I did.

Final note and last cautionary word: when you are buffing, wear safety glasses & respiratory protection, and be very, very careful around the edges. You can catch an edge and either destroy an instrument (like my friend, James Olson did) or set yourself back 3 weeks in the twinkling of an eye. YOU CANNOT BE TOO CAREFUL AROUND EDGES AT ANY STEP OF THIS ENTIRE OPERATION. Edges hate you. They want to see you cry and cuss and kick the door of your shop.

The final results of the above process produced this:







I think the results are worth it . . .

Last edited by LedBelli Bass : 01-08-2009 at 05:30 PM.
  #2  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:45 AM
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thanks for the guidelines. awesome nitro finish.
  #3  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:52 AM
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Beautiful!! I can't imagine how much extra all those hours of work would add to the cost of a bass.
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  #4  
Old 01-08-2009, 01:11 PM
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Thank you, Tom.

It's not as labor intensive as it seems on the face of it. The trick is to not go backwards . . .
  #5  
Old 01-08-2009, 03:04 PM
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Great tutorial, I too use Micro mesh, I've found that with my finish of choice (2 stage poly) I can skip buffing compound and go straight to polish.
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  #6  
Old 01-08-2009, 03:29 PM
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That last photo is amazing - how did you get the glow around the edges?
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  #7  
Old 01-08-2009, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey R View Post
That last photo is amazing - how did you get the glow around the edges?
Thank you, Mike.

The glow is simply reflected ambient light from the finish. The attention to detail in the finishing schedule/process allowed this "accident" to happen.

The sychronized soft box was high and left, while natural ambient light was coming into the shoot from high right.

For further details contact the photographer, Jackie Johnston, at www.winecountrycreations.com
  #8  
Old 01-08-2009, 05:49 PM
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Really nice work ! I freakin love your bass ! Build more !!!
-Mario-
  #9  
Old 01-08-2009, 07:30 PM
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btw off topic, what camera are you using for your shots?
  #10  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
btw off topic, what camera are you using for your shots?
Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III w/ 28-75mm zoom.

These shots were taken by my best friend, who is a freelance professional.

No effects. No Photoshopping.
  #11  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:23 PM
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I'm wondering about your definition of "coat". Are you making 3 passes over the body and counting that as one coat? I always heard and used "The Rules of Three", 3 passes =1 coat, 3 coats a day, for 3 days. Do you prefer to use the vinyl sealer vs a nitro S&S, or is it due to just using McFadden products?

Great finishing schedule with awesome results, thanks for sharing. Congrats.
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:30 PM
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you spraying in a heated booth?

either way the end result looks stunning very well done
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:57 PM
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Lon -- I'm counting each shoot. Per your def it would be 9 coats.

Dreadhead -- No, this instrument I sprayed at room temp. Of late, I have started pre-heating my lacquer to 120 deg prior to shooting. Still shooting at room temp however.

Thanks to both of you for your kind words.
  #14  
Old 01-09-2009, 08:14 AM
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Very nice tut - beautiful results.

I've done exactly one nitro finish together with a friend, many years ago, and followed a schedule almost identical to that The only real differences in our case were that we started thinning the nitro as we moved toward the finer wet-sanding grits, and just went with 1000-2000-4000 Abralon pads before buffing. We also waited a month at step #8.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjclem View Post
I can't imagine how much extra all those hours of work would add to the cost of a bass.
Compared with an oil finish, +$400 for a bolt-on, and +$500 for a neck-thru or set neck on my menu. A lot of folks prefer oil to nitro on the neck, so YMMV, but there are definitely guys who specifically want nitro and only nitro, and it is one of the more easily repairable finishes out there.
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  #15  
Old 01-09-2009, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikbojerik View Post

Compared with an oil finish, +$400 for a bolt-on, and +$500 for a neck-thru or set neck on my menu. A lot of folks prefer oil to nitro on the neck, so YMMV, but there are definitely guys who specifically want nitro and only nitro, and it is one of the more easily repairable finishes out there.
I like nitro because it melts the previous layer, and it smells good too
  #16  
Old 01-14-2009, 02:31 AM
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Hello.

what color does the z poxy dry? Heres my scenario please help. I have a 2008 fender jazz bass body thats painted and finished from fender, but this body does not have a nitro coat currently. I am also trying to find out about the clarity of McFadden's Vinyl Sealer/Washcoat if you could explain that it would be helpful. This body has a ding i am going to epoxy out, But I really do not want to sand it aggressivly before paint. So that is why I want to know about using this z poxy since I already will have such a thick enamel of factory paint. I know nothing about priming and would love some info please.

On the neck it has a gloss laquer finish orig. 1969 j bass neck*, really the same thing here..... I just want to get a strong stick when I spray its back and head stock with Nitro cell.

Hope you can make me see it clearly and give me any tips/helpers for getting an even sand.

DonkeyKong

Last edited by donkeyKong : 01-14-2009 at 02:35 AM.
  #17  
Old 01-14-2009, 06:41 AM
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I'm headin out the door so I have to brief. I'll come back tonight with more . . .

To answer two of your questions: the Zpoxy and McFadden's sealer washcoat are -primarily- intended to be used on bare wood. when used according to instructions they are, essentially, undetectable.

For refinish/repair situations, I'll have to get back to you later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donkeyKong View Post
Hello.

what color does the z poxy dry? Heres my scenario please help. I have a 2008 fender jazz bass body thats painted and finished from fender, but this body does not have a nitro coat currently. I am also trying to find out about the clarity of McFadden's Vinyl Sealer/Washcoat if you could explain that it would be helpful. This body has a ding i am going to epoxy out, But I really do not want to sand it aggressivly before paint. So that is why I want to know about using this z poxy since I already will have such a thick enamel of factory paint. I know nothing about priming and would love some info please.

On the neck it has a gloss laquer finish orig. 1969 j bass neck*, really the same thing here..... I just want to get a strong stick when I spray its back and head stock with Nitro cell.

Hope you can make me see it clearly and give me any tips/helpers for getting an even sand.

DonkeyKong
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  #18  
Old 01-14-2009, 06:44 AM
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"This body has a ding i am going to epoxy out, But I really do not want to sand it aggressivly before paint"

Could you explain more about what exactly you intend to do? Is this a complete refinish or a small repair?

My tute only applies to full-blown shoots from square one.
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  #19  
Old 01-14-2009, 08:18 AM
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FWIW if your '69 Jazz neck has the original finish, you should really think twice before doing a refinish on it. In original condition, it is a vintage piece that has some value - even off the body - think many hundreds of dollars, depending on condition (and if it has the original tuners).

If the finish is not original, then fire away.
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  #20  
Old 01-14-2009, 10:09 AM
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so far, so good
 
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Is this a candidate for trying the steam-out-the-dent method?
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