Nitro vs KTM-9

[erikbojerik]

Anyone who's used both of these care to compare them?

I like the ability of finish layers to burn in or "bite back" chemically, but would be interested in how they spray, cure and buff out.

[wilser]

I've used both and see no reason to go back to nitro. KTM9 feels just about the same and is cures pretty hard, if you go by the guidelines. Doolin's instructions are pretty much accurate and it's what I'm using, just changed the cheap HF spraygun for a mini HVLP. For it to 'burn in' or 'bite back' as you say, chemically, you have to give it a light coat of denatured alcohol if it's been drying from one day to the next. In my experience, it also cures much faster than nitro, both between coats and before final buffing.

[Nelson Guitars]

I find Target coatings superior to the KTM9 on several levels. Especially when it comes to level sanding! I also agree that for a small shop, the latex finishes are a much better for your health and don't pose the fire hazards that Nitro does.

Greg

[tjclem]

What spray equiptment are you buying? I have nothing. I am getting tired of shooting with rattle cans. I don't want to invest in something then have to sell it to get the right thing. Will the Target coating do OK in high humidity? What about the KTM9? I live in central Florida. Thanks

[wilser]

KTM9 will probably do fine in high humidity, main problem is temperature, which is a problem for me, since my shop is in my garage.

Tom, I got a mini HVLP from spraygunworld.com, it's made in china to CA Technologies specs (they make US models, but quite expensive). I have a big ol' noisy craftsman compressor capable of 7cfm @ 90psi, which is quite enough for almost all mini HVLP guns. Reviewers compare it to the SATA mini jet 3.

Target coatings sounds interesting ...what's the minimum temperature it can be sprayed in?

[erikbojerik]

Wilser...thanks for the info. For the KTM9 burn-in, are you saying that for a body dried overnight, you wet the surface with alcohol before spraying a new coat?

[erikbojerik]

OK...just read Mike Doolin's take on it re: the alcohol. I think I will go with the KTM-9, as I'll be spraying in the garage (partly heated on 3 sides by the rest of the house...).

I'll save the nitro for this spring when it warms up and I can spray outdoors.

[wilser]

hey erik, I have also heard of people using infrared lamps to heat up the spray area and the bass before and after spraying KTM9. this also helps to cure faster. I haven't tried it, but I have to since my garage is very cold during the winter.

[erikbojerik]

Well, if the weather stays like this, I won't have to warm it up too much.

Woah...nitro is way cheaper than KTM-9. Hmmm...

[wilser]

reviving a not so old thread to ask a few questions to nelson_luthier (greg) ...if you're still around.

I just placed an order for some of the Target coatings products to give them a try. I ordered their SCL and waterbased poly and also some of their grain filler. Their prices are WAY cheaper than KTM-9, so that's a big plus.

Can you expand on how you find these superior to Grafted coatings?

Thanks.

[Musiclogic]

Hey Will, Target UL 9000 is HARD!!!!! "almost" Pedulla Polyester Hard.....no more epoxy on fretlesses....wooohoooo

The Ultima Spray Lacquer (USL) is a good product, I am growing more and more imprssed with it as I continue to experiment. It does take a little getting used to as far as spraying it goes, but the more I practice with it, the easier it becomes. It takes a little more muscle to sand, but the results are looking good so far(test pieces only).

Check out the Forum a Target Coaings, there is a lot of great information on there, and some luthier specific threads

[wilser]

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

Hey Will, Target UL 9000 is HARD!!!!! "almost" Pedulla Polyester Hard.....no more epoxy on fretlesses....wooohoooo

The Ultima Spray Lacquer (USL) is a good product, I am growing more and more imprssed with it as I continue to experiment. It does take a little getting used to as far as spraying it goes, but the more I practice with it, the easier it becomes. It takes a little more muscle to sand, but the results are looking good so far(test pieces only).

Check out the Forum a Target Coaings, there is a lot of great information on there, and some luthier specific threads

Thanks for the heads up. I read some of the posts there and also some old threads on the MIMF where Mr. Weiss was providing feedback and accepting criticism and making changes to his products based on these ...that is good service and a real connection to the community.

When you say it takes more muscle to sand, you mean it's harder or that it's more difficult (more loading up)? KTM9 is soft to sand but easy, meaning that it doesn't load up the paper. I would prefer to have to sand more, actually, as it's less likely that one would sand through, don't you think?

Any pointers regarding spraying? I'm using a mini HVLP gun with a 0.8 tip for KTM9 and it's been working great.

[Musiclogic]

No pointers on spraying....I am old school High Pressure guy, Ingersol Compressor and DeVilbiss and Binks guns, sprayng tight fan patterns. I coldn't get the hang of HVLP personally(didn't try to hard either....LMAO).

As far as load, and hardness, it's harder than KTM-9(which I absolutely hate, Acrylac was harder than KTM , but not as transparent). It doesnt load up the paper like Nitro does, and sands a little harder than nitro. Basically the finish is a little harder than nitro, so it takes a little more work, but it's neglegible time wise, maybe a couple more minutes per grit than Nitro. But remember, I am still experimenting, so I am no authority on it yet.....LOL Just my observations

[erikbojerik]

There is some good talk about Sherwin Williams water white conversion varnish on another forum. It is a catalyzed product, seems the cabinet guys have been using it for years. Supposed to dry harder than nitro.

http://www.sherwinwilliams.com/OEM/wood/products/haps/

[Musiclogic]

hmmmmm Erik.....another product to try...LOL Thanks for the info