NItrocellulose is almost out of here

[joeyl]

well, I was at the Lowe's and noticed that the Deft sprays do not cellulose nitrate in them anymore. I know nitro is slowly being phased out but I did not know it was going to be that quick. I am screwed because I started the first 4 coats with Deft nitro and I need about 4 more since it is a very thin finish.

I have 2 options: buy the $13 nitro cans from reranch.com (if the site is not down)
or sand the nitro down and use something else like polyurethane.

question is: can I spray polyurethane or polycrylic over a nitro coat? or do I need to remove the nitro completely?

[SDB Guitars]

The Deft gloss aerosol lacquer doesn't list nitrocellulose in its MSDS, but the brushing lacquer does. In fact, I can't identify the solids in the MSDS for the aerosol lacquer, as seen below:

Component CAS Number Weight % Reporting Ranges
ACETONE 67-64-1 10-30
METHYL ETHYL KETONE 78-93-3 10-30
PROPANE 74-98-6 10-30
ISOPROPANOL ANHYDROUS 67-63-0 5-10
METHYL ISOBUTYL KETONE 108-10-1 5-10
VM & P NAPHTHA 64742-89-8 3-7
XYLENE 1330-20-7 1-5
ETHYL 3-ETHOXYPROPIONATE 763-69-9 1-5
2-BUTOXYETHANOL 111-76-2 1-5
ETHYL BENZENE 100-41-4 0.1-1.0
ISOBUTYL ALCOHOL 78-83-1 0.1-1.0

The MSDS for the brushing version is as follows:

ALIPHATIC HYDROCARBON 8052-41-3 10-30
ISOBUTYL ISOBUTYRATE 97-85-8 7-13
VM & P NAPHTHA 64742-89-8 7-13
METHYL n-AMYL KETONE 110-43-0 7-13
2-BUTOXYETHANOL 111-76-2 5-10
NITROCELLULOSE 9004-70-0 5-10
n-BUTYL ALCOHOL 71-36-3 3-7
XYLENE 1330-20-7 3-7
ISOPROPANOL ANHYDROUS 67-63-0 1-5
BUTYL CELLOSOLVE ACETATE 112-07-2 1-5
ETHYL BENZENE 100-41-4 0.1-1.0
ISOBUTYL ALCOHOL 78-83-1 0.1-1.0
ETHYL BENZENE 100-41-4 0.1-1.0

[joeyl]

well the old aerosol had a contents label, and listed cellulose nitrate, the new one lists only the volatile stuff like you pointed out, no solids.
thanks for the response. I may scrape the nitro out, and pretend it was the grain filler, unless I know for sure if I can spray poly over nitro Nitro was a pain in the ass though, it finishes beautifully but it is quite touchy: long dry times, everything that has vinyl affects it, it stays soft for a long long time.

[joeyl]

broke down and bought 2 cans of nitro from reranch.com. I found out that you cannot spray poly over nitro since the nitro gasses off for a long time, you can spray nitro over poly though

[SDB Guitars]

I may call Deft about that... I think it may still be nitrocellulose...

[waseok]

Is there any reason using nitro?

[SDB Guitars]

Nitro lacquer is just about the easiest hard finish to apply/repair. Each coat burns into the previous coats, so you don't get "witness lines" when sanding... Poly can have this issue, because each coat doesn't melt into the previous coat... when you sand poly, if you sand through to the previous coat, you will have a thin white line showing the sand-through.

Nitro lacquer doesn't have that issue, as each coat's application melts into the previous coat, making it basically a single later of finish.

Likewise, you can repair nitro lacquer in such a way that you basically can't tell that it has been repaired. Not so with poly. You can't just drop-fill it.

[Nelson Guitars]

You have already started with Nitro so keep going with that. Next one though you might want to consider water born. My current favorite is http://www.targetcoatings.com/oxford-spray-lacquer.html

I know it says to spray, but I know people who brush it with great success. I even brush the first few coats on sometimes to built up fast. A small learning curve for those who use Nitro currently but not all that different. And not dealing with all those chemicals is a real plus!

Greg N

[gfried84]

At lowes by me they have cabot lacquer which I know to be nitro because I used it to repair a badly damaged martin finish and it melted right in with no problem.

[waseok]

Originally Posted by SDB Guitars

Nitro lacquer is just about the easiest hard finish to apply/repair. Each coat burns into the previous coats, so you don't get "witness lines" when sanding... Poly can have this issue, because each coat doesn't melt into the previous coat... when you sand poly, if you sand through to the previous coat, you will have a thin white line showing the sand-through.

Nitro lacquer doesn't have that issue, as each coat's application melts into the previous coat, making it basically a single later of finish.

Likewise, you can repair nitro lacquer in such a way that you basically can't tell that it has been repaired. Not so with poly. You can't just drop-fill it.

Nice! Makes sense why Leo Used it
What about the "tone"? U know there are some that believe that nitro sounds "vintage" and its better because its thin and does not alter the vibration of the wood. What is ur opinion as a builder about that?
Sorry i hope im not offtopic.

[joeyl]

Originally Posted by waseok

Nice! Makes sense why Leo Used it
What about the "tone"? U know there are some that believe that nitro sounds "vintage" and its better because its thin and does not alter the vibration of the wood. What is ur opinion as a builder about that?
Sorry i hope im not offtopic.

consensus is that the vintage tone with nitro is hocus-pocus, and that solid body instruments do not really vibrate that much to make a difference with finish types, you should know that by now just by hanging around the luthier's corner.

And Leo used it because it was available at that time. If it was that much better, Fender would still be using it, like they still use the rest of their designs.

[J.D.B.]

The bass in my avatar is finished(from the wood up): ACE sanding sealer(nitro), Ace white primer(acrylic), ReRanch surf green(nitro) and the clear is DupliColor(acrylic lacquer). Use thin, transitional coats at first. Heavy coats of one over the other with the cheap stuff of either nitro or acrylic(high amounts of "fast" solvents like xylene) are the usual problematic areas. The "fast dry" types are the ones to avoid. Always avoid heavy coats of whatever you use.
Josh

[joeyl]

wow that's quite a mix, I am surprised they work together. I would think the acrylic over nitro would be a disaster

[waseok]

Originally Posted by joeyl

consensus is that the vintage tone with nitro is hocus-pocus, and that solid body instruments do not really vibrate that much to make a difference with finish types, you should know that by now just by hanging around the luthier's corner.

And Leo used it because it was available at that time. If it was that much better, Fender would still be using it, like they still use the rest of their designs.

I wanted to hear ur opinion about that I know it's BS.
Thanks!

[roberthelpus]

It seems that the OP is saying that Nitro Laquer is getting harder to find in rattle cans. I am guessing and hoping that the same isn't true in plain cans.n Right?

Just curious, because I have inherited spray equipment and am thinikng about not letting it go to waste.

[Jazzdogg]

Nitrocellulose lacquer isn't the only casualty. All finishing products that emit VOCS are subject to increasingly stringent controls. Here in California, it is already illegal to commercially spray nitrocellulose lacquer with anything buy an HVLP rig. In San Diego we can still obtain many solvent-based finishing products, but many retailers are limited to quart sizes. In Los Angeles and Orange Counties several solvent-based finishes have already been taken off of the shelves.

Considering product restrictions and the increasing cost of government licensing, inspection, and regulation, for anyone who intends to continue spray finishing in California, applying water-borne finishes with an HVLP rig is the only practicable solution.

[joeyl]

yep, if you like nitro you may want to stash up whatever you can find. Reminds me of R12 refrigerant back in the early 90s when it got banned, some people actually made money by hording a hangar of R12 cans, 1 pound was 5 dollars, became 50 bucks after it was restricted for repair use only.