Not Enough Mwah driving me crazy

[agfrag]

I built a bass about 17 years ago based on a maple Carvin 4 string neck (through neck), with an ebony fretboard. Put mother of pearl fretmarkers on it (not an easy thing to do, I don't recommend it!), and the body is Padauk. It has Q-Tuner soapbar pickups, and a Yamaha piezo bridge, though it used to have Bartolini soapbars and a Kahler bridge.

I can't get a strong Mwah out of it to save my life. It's got a very pleasant slight mwah, and the mwah can be controlled by plucking further away from the neck, but I have gone nuts trying to understand why I can't get more. The mwah just about disapperas in a band situation, and I might as well have a fretted P-bass (no offense intended to P-bass lovers, it's just not the sound I'm trying to get).

Any suggestions? I've adjusted the relief with the trussrod down to where the neck is almost perfectly straight and then slowly lowered the strings, very little mwah right down to where the strings start to clack against the fingerboard. Ugh!

The fingerboard is finished with superglue. I re-did it just recently, and it is a beautiful even finish. The original lasted 15 years before I felt it needed a redo. The neck is a beauty, the grain on the back is plank cut, and when I adjust the truss rod, it bows evenly from top to bottom (24 fret neck).

I'm at wits end, and am thinking of either insetting a stainless steel fretboard like the 'Remington Steele' bass, or just starting over from scratch.

I've read a lot of the threads, but there doesn't seem to be any heavy discussion about what causes mwah and what doesn't.

Any help folks?

[elgecko]

You mentioned everything except what type/gauge strings you're using.

[BassCycle]

Getting mwah has an awful lot to do with technique, and tone, maybe even more than set up. You don't even need a particularly hard surface to achieve it. And once you do achieve it, you need plenty of volume and midrange boost to get it to cut through in a mix. Try lightly plucking the strings right over the fingerboard. Also experiment with sliding up to target notes and vibrato. Get your vibrato by rolling your fingers up and down the fb rather than back and forth. Just a few tips.

[agfrag]

You mentioned everything except what type/gauge strings you're using.

Whoops! Good point elgecko. I use steel round wounds. I've tried all different kinds, but pretty much stick to Rotosound 66er's light gauge, or Ken Smith Rockmaster(?) same gauges. I've tried flats, semiflats, sorta flats, tapewound, and so on.

Getting mwah has an awful lot to do with technique,...

I understand the technique thing BassCycle, I can get the mwah I want if I play at the end of my fingerboard, but that is kinda limiting, and only works for those slow smooth type passages. Forgot to mention, I've been playing fretless for about 25 years I guess, give or take. I've tried just about every finger technique I can think of.

I've played other people's basses, and the good ones seemed to have effortless mwah, I just plucked away with my usual technique, finger tips close to the bridge pickup(the pickup between my fingers and the bridge)
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I allmost bought a Pedulla Pentabuzz in my quest for perfect mwah, but it had serious neck dive, so I couldn't do the purchase.

[MrDOS]

I would sugest Pedulla - and sell or keep your labor of love as a spare.

All three of the Pedullas I've owned have had "muah out of the box"

[agfrag]

Maybe the 4 string Buzz. The 5 string actually caused me shoulder pain after playing it for just a couple hours! The upper horn only went up to the 14th fret I think...

Next time I have close to $5000 laying around

[Triad]

I think that the woods combo isn't right for you. Some fretless basses just sound like they have frets... and it's something I don't like at all. If the bass unplugged doesn't have enough of those mids I fear there's nothing you can do. Maybe you can make it slightly better but it will never become a "liquid sounding" bass.

[jgroh]

Maybe you want to stick to high end basses, I dont know but, I have a Squier VM Jazz Fretless and I actually had to raise the strings up because I had too much mwahhh. I dont play fretless that often so for me I dont need something high end (and I happen to think the VM sounds great!) but it might be a low cost option.

[jazzyitalian]

Here's what you can do:

1. Technique can alter sonic properties. It really can!!! Rather than finger the notes with the tips of your fingers, use the fleshy part of your finger opposite your nails. I hope that makes sense. Don't bend the fingers to play noters with the tips. play notes flush.
2. Chorus effects work well to get more of that nasal sound you want.
3. Stay away from the neck pick up. strike over the bridge pickup and keep the neck PU volume lower.

Those should all help. Oh and if you are looking for higher end fretless basses, stay away from Music Man and look to the Manne's. That's that italian builder. He makes some of the nicer fretless basses.

[lowtide]

Try lowering the string nut slots so you just clear the board and adjust the TRod to a very slight concave. Mwah~!

[pushifier]

Originally Posted by lowtide

Try lowering the string nut slots so you just clear the board and adjust the TRod to a very slight concave. Mwah~!

+1 that is key for getting (more) that Mwah;

[Jools4001]

Along with lowering the nut slots so that the open strings are virtually on the board, set it up with the lowest action and the minimum relief that you can get away with.

If that and the 25 years of fretless technique can't get you there it's time to swap it out for one of those basses that you can get mwah for days on.

[lowtide]

I play fretless exclusively and actually hate that nasty buzzing down my board. It's a sign of a need for a new nut~! But to each their own . . . I like barooooooomm better~!

[Lonnybass]

Originally Posted by agfrag

I built a bass about 17 years ago based on a maple Carvin 4 string neck (through neck), with an ebony fretboard. Put mother of pearl fretmarkers on it (not an easy thing to do, I don't recommend it!), and the body is Padauk. It has Q-Tuner soapbar pickups, and a Yamaha piezo bridge, though it used to have Bartolini soapbars and a Kahler bridge.

I can't get a strong Mwah out of it to save my life. It's got a very pleasant slight mwah, and the mwah can be controlled by plucking further away from the neck, but I have gone nuts trying to understand why I can't get more. The mwah just about disapperas in a band situation, and I might as well have a fretted P-bass (no offense intended to P-bass lovers, it's just not the sound I'm trying to get).

Any suggestions? I've adjusted the relief with the trussrod down to where the neck is almost perfectly straight and then slowly lowered the strings, very little mwah right down to where the strings start to clack against the fingerboard. Ugh!

The fingerboard is finished with superglue. I re-did it just recently, and it is a beautiful even finish. The original lasted 15 years before I felt it needed a redo. The neck is a beauty, the grain on the back is plank cut, and when I adjust the truss rod, it bows evenly from top to bottom (24 fret neck).

I'm at wits end, and am thinking of either insetting a stainless steel fretboard like the 'Remington Steele' bass, or just starting over from scratch.

I've read a lot of the threads, but there doesn't seem to be any heavy discussion about what causes mwah and what doesn't.

Any help folks?

Go buy yourself a parametric EQ unit (floor pedal or rack) and use it to boost a narrow band between about 800 and 950 Hz. Cut everything else. Turn up your volume, use good vibrato on your fretting hand and you should have plenty of mwah.

Lonnybass

[tjclem]

Originally Posted by agfrag

I built a bass about 17 years ago based on a maple Carvin 4 string neck (through neck), with an ebony fretboard. Put mother of pearl fretmarkers on it (not an easy thing to do, I don't recommend it!), and the body is Padauk. It has Q-Tuner soapbar pickups, and a Yamaha piezo bridge, though it used to have Bartolini soapbars and a Kahler bridge.

I can't get a strong Mwah out of it to save my life. It's got a very pleasant slight mwah, and the mwah can be controlled by plucking further away from the neck, but I have gone nuts trying to understand why I can't get more. The mwah just about disapperas in a band situation, and I might as well have a fretted P-bass (no offense intended to P-bass lovers, it's just not the sound I'm trying to get).

Any suggestions? I've adjusted the relief with the trussrod down to where the neck is almost perfectly straight and then slowly lowered the strings, very little mwah right down to where the strings start to clack against the fingerboard. Ugh!

The fingerboard is finished with superglue. I re-did it just recently, and it is a beautiful even finish. The original lasted 15 years before I felt it needed a redo. The neck is a beauty, the grain on the back is plank cut, and when I adjust the truss rod, it bows evenly from top to bottom (24 fret neck).

I'm at wits end, and am thinking of either insetting a stainless steel fretboard like the 'Remington Steele' bass, or just starting over from scratch.

I've read a lot of the threads, but there doesn't seem to be any heavy discussion about what causes mwah and what doesn't.

Any help folks?

If people would post where they were located in the profile local people could help them out....t

[agfrag]

Fascinating response on the nut filing. I hadn't thought of that, as it seems to me that after you've 'fretted' the note, all the stuff between the fingertip and the nut is out of play! But, upon examining my string height at the nut, I must admit it is pretty high. I can't fit a 0.050 inch allen wrench in there, but it looks like it could go a bit lower.

If people would post where they were located in the profile local people could help them out....t

I've updated the profile tjclem, good point.

Lonnybass, I'll try the eq and see what happens, but I think I've tried that in the past.

set it up with the lowest action and the minimum relief that you can get away with

I've got it there now, and like I mentioned earlier, it mwahs like crazy if my fingers are over the fretboard, but mwah quickly goes away as I move toward the pickups.

Btw, I'm using a Markbass 121P combo, and sometimes the NY 4x6 as an extension and I've fiddled with that amps settings, and the VLE and VLF controls, without much success.

jgroh, oddly enough, I just picked up a Squier VMF myself last week (only $239.99 at GC!), and what a great sound it has! it would be perfect actually, in the mwah department, really a Jaco mwah vs. a Mark Egan mwah, except the fingerboard is uneven, great mwah in some places, none in others, and too much in others. I've been spending a lot of time with setup, and it looks like I might have to sand down the fretboard in some places, it's a bit uneven, like a bad fret job, but I have all the tools, even one of those Stew Mac type instrument holding jigs with the dial calipers. I used this tool to sand down the neck of the bass I'm whining about and it turned out to work very well, very flat and even from end to end, no high or low spots. We'll see

[agfrag]

Well, I filed the nut down pretty far, and couldn't tell any difference in the mwah before and after. The attached pic is how far I took them down. Any farther than that, and I think I'd get too scared

[Kevin Woods]

You know, I have been trying string sets on my Aria Steve Bailey fretless 6, and I have found that, for some reason, both gauges of Fodera Anthony Jackson Steels as well as D'Addarios Pro Steels just don't sound that good (I regularly use Pro Steels on my TRB-6). Then I put on a set of DR Sunbeams and those suckers really growl.

For my F-basses and some others the steel rounds are a sure thing, but I know that a lot of players are going for the Sunbeams to get some added fretless growl and expression.

Just the same, I might be selling my AC-5 and the Bailey bass to fund a new Veillette fretless 6...
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[dmusic148]

Some basses do it and some don't. No idea why. I had a Pentabuzz that wouldn't buzz at all- no mwah. Zip. Nothing fixed it. OTOH I have a fretless Thunderbass 5 that's mwah city. Dunno.

[SDB Guitars]

Originally Posted by lowtide

I play fretless exclusively and actually hate that nasty buzzing down my board. It's a sign of a need for a new nut~! But to each their own . . . I like barooooooomm better~!

You know, I'm sometimes the same way... I just made a 32" fretless, and strung it up with half-rounds because I actually prefer more clarity in my tone. I want to be able to play in a standard band, and play pretty much as I would on a fretted bass, but more "slippery".

That having been said, I like a *little* mwah thrown in there in occasion, but I think that a lot of that can be accomplished by playing differently.