Pickup on rails? :)

[Insanity^2]

Hey Guys,
I've never tried to build or even mod my basses, but I've been wondering... would it be entirely impossible to get a big MM pickup, cut a large chunk out of your bass and put the pickup on rails?

I just think, other than maybe losing a bit of tone from the wood, it would make the bass lighter and give great tonal flexibility, you guys are the experts, would this work? or would it just be a cool novelty trick that only has about 2 sweet spots where it doesn't sound muddy and awful?
I have no intention of doing this but it's 1.30 am and I'm bored.
Actually I'll probably go to bed and not look at this till the morning. But it'd be awesome

[BobXboB]

It's been done a million times, maybe I'm exaggerating. It has been done many times. Kai Eckhardt has one.

Routing does not cause loss of tone, it causes loss of wood. If you feel you need a certain volume of wood glue some more onto the back

[tomvelsor]

i am absolutely amazed to read this. i've always had that idea, and even contacted Wishbass to make it for me, but never went through with it.

it would probobly have about 3 sweet spot areas, one near the bridge like a jazz bass, one a little further kinda like the flea bass, and one in a normal neck position. the up side of this is that its always better to have less magnets pulling on the string, and with one movable pickup youll only have one set of magnets.

but in reality this idea is useless, unless you come up with a really killer system. it wouldent be easy to move it around during a song..

[pilotjones]

It's been done a few times. Try searching on "westone rail," and "gibson grabber," and you'll also turn up the names of the others. And the reference to the one with the servomotor and memory.

Do another search on "pickup position sweet spot" and you'll find all kinds of discussion on effects of position.

[WarriorJoe7]

The very first Alembic, I think Rickenbacker had one, gibson did it, their is a rail bass. too.

[WarriorJoe7]

Just to clear it up, there is no such thing as a sweet spot based on pickup location BECAUSE the scale length effectively changes every time you fret a note. That is the short explanation.

It is true that the pickup will definitely sound different in different spots but there is no sweet spot (or spot that is better than any other spot unless you have a particluar tone in mind... i.e closer to the bridge has more upper harmonics, and closer to the neck has more fundamental.)

[WarriorJoe7]

Originally Posted by tomvelsor

i am absolutely amazed to read this. i've always had that idea, and even contacted Wishbass to make it for me, but never went through with it.

it would probobly have about 3 sweet spot areas, one near the bridge like a jazz bass, one a little further kinda like the flea bass, and one in a normal neck position. the up side of this is that its always better to have less magnets pulling on the string, and with one movable pickup youll only have one set of magnets.

but in reality this idea is useless, unless you come up with a really killer system. it wouldent be easy to move it around during a song..

if you have it on rails it could be fairly easy to move.

[BobXboB]

Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7

Just to clear it up, there is no such thing as a sweet spot based on pickup location BECAUSE the scale length effectively changes every time you fret a note. That is the short explanation.

It is true that the pickup will definitely sound different in different spots but there is no sweet spot (or spot that is better than any other spot unless you have a particluar tone in mind... i.e closer to the bridge has more upper harmonics, and closer to the neck has more fundamental.)

Amen, sweet spot marketing is for tennis rackets. This whole idea of being off a 1/4 inch will ruin tone is hooey!

[black_labb]

i've been trying to think of a way to do it without making the front of the bass ugly. would be a fun mod to do to a beater. maybe making it so you could adjust the tilt of the pup too would be good

[pilotjones]

Originally Posted by black_labb

i've been trying to think of a way to do it without making the front of the bass ugly. would be a fun mod to do to a beater. maybe making it so you could adjust the tilt of the pup too would be good

Have a long continuous cover, solid from the front, and the cavity is open from behind to shift the pup.

[BobXboB]

Originally Posted by black_labb

i've been trying to think of a way to do it without making the front of the bass ugly.

Good luck Maybe you could figure out a way to have some sort of pickguard or flaps that slides with it to cover up the gaping hole.

[asad137]

Originally Posted by BobXboB

Good luck Maybe you could figure out a way to have some sort of pickguard or flaps that slides with it to cover up the gaping hole.

I thought about some sort of 'garage door' style thing that loops around to the back of the bass.

Asad

[jojo99]

Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7

It is true that the pickup will definitely sound different in different spots but there is no sweet spot (or spot that is better than any other spot unless you have a particluar tone in mind... i.e closer to the bridge has more upper harmonics, and closer to the neck has more fundamental.)

...but that's exactly what people mean by "sweet spot"... getting a particular tone by having the pickup in a particular spot. It's vague language, granted, (is butter sweet? I never thought so, nor is cream, but they are sold under that term). I don't think the intention of "sweet spot" was to mean "best spot"....anyway, there seem to be a few particular pickup locations that nail the type of sound that most people are after, and it's used as marketing reference to assure them that the pickup in a particular bass is in the spot that gives the sound they are accustomed to on a similar bass, and not an inch or two closer to the bridge or neck, etc.

A Fender Jazz bass has differing locations of the bridge pickup depending on it's year.... and people swear they can hear a difference. 1/4 inch makes all the difference in the world, to them. Maybe for every sweet spot, there's a sour spot?
I guess the only way to tell is to play around with a sliding pickup, or as Leo Fender did, mount a neck on a board and experiment with pickup locations until a nice-sounding, 'sweet' spot is found.

[RLK]

I'm not sure if this is where the term originated, but--

If I remember right, Modulus put the term "Sweet Spot" out there as a marketing tool.
They basically put a lone PU at the mid point between the typical J pickup locations (to approximate both J's on?), and tagged that positon with a fancy name.
I'm guessing some people have this in mind when they use the term.

Naturally it can mean a favorite spot for a favorite sound.

[BobXboB]

Originally Posted by RLK

If I remember right, Modulus put the term "Sweet Spot" out there as a marketing tool.

They did that in the mid 1980's. Some have taken the term too far and assume it means if you miss the magical yet arbitrary sweet spot you ruin the tone/sustain/resonance instead of just changing the tone slightly.

Notice that any company that markets a sweet spot will also sell basses with pickups in other locations. Pure marketing fluff for the unwashed masses.

[powerbass]

About a month ago I posted a PU positioning jig I made to test PU position and tone. Before you go cutting into a bass try making this.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f57/pu-position-jig-431270/#post5683480

[Arx]

Originally Posted by jojo99

...but that's exactly what people mean by "sweet spot"... getting a particular tone by having the pickup in a particular spot. It's vague language, granted, (is butter sweet? I never thought so, nor is cream, but they are sold under that term). I don't think the intention of "sweet spot" was to mean "best spot"....anyway, there seem to be a few particular pickup locations that nail the type of sound that most people are after, and it's used as marketing reference to assure them that the pickup in a particular bass is in the spot that gives the sound they are accustomed to on a similar bass, and not an inch or two closer to the bridge or neck, etc.

A Fender Jazz bass has differing locations of the bridge pickup depending on it's year.... and people swear they can hear a difference. 1/4 inch makes all the difference in the world, to them. Maybe for every sweet spot, there's a sour spot?
I guess the only way to tell is to play around with a sliding pickup, or as Leo Fender did, mount a neck on a board and experiment with pickup locations until a nice-sounding, 'sweet' spot is found.

Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7

Just to clear it up, there is no such thing as a sweet spot based on pickup location BECAUSE the scale length effectively changes every time you fret a note. That is the short explanation.

It is true that the pickup will definitely sound different in different spots but there is no sweet spot (or spot that is better than any other spot unless you have a particluar tone in mind... i.e closer to the bridge has more upper harmonics, and closer to the neck has more fundamental.)

+1 I wish everyone would understand this. Pickups will work pretty much anywhere under the strings, and sound reasonably okay. For more harmonics and brightness, you put them near the bridge, and for more fundamental, and less harmonics, nearer the neck. There are also comb filtering effects to consider, but their actual effect on the sound is hard enough to predict that calculating them is pretty pointless.

Just follow the rules of thumb to get the approximate tone you're looking for, give it a catchy name, and allow everyone to assume it's some highly complicated relationship between the string length and overtones that you meticulously calculated. They'll start all sorts of threads asking how they'd need to adjust it to make your magical pickup position fit on their different scale of bass, and about how different pickups would work in that spot, etc. Probably good for a laugh at least.

[BobXboB]

Originally Posted by Arx

Just follow the rules of thumb to get the approximate tone you're looking for, give it a catchy name, and allow everyone to assume it's some highly complicated relationship between the string length and overtones that you meticulously calculated. They'll start all sorts of threads asking how they'd need to adjust it to make your magical pickup position fit on their different scale of bass, and about how different pickups would work in that spot, etc.

The best part of being cynical is you get to be right all the time

[uethanian]

i totally understand the thing about 'sweet spots' not existing. but let me throw something out there.

what if the pickup was in such a position so that for a majority of fretted notes (or at least the most common fretted notes), even harmonics lie over the pickup. it would possible, however difficult, to map out the lower level harmonics for each fretted length of string. it wouldn't be too hard to avoid the 5th and 7th harmonics. then its just a matter of choosing the best fit. i really don't feel its that important, but just an idea.

of course, everyone has a different idea of what a 'sweet spot' is. for me, i would say an even mixture between closed and open tone. for others, something else.

[WarriorJoe7]

It's not possible to determine the most commonly fretted notes. I think their are only 2 solutions that would do what you want.

1) Have a 12 string bass, one note for each string and play all open strings.

2) Have an actuator that very quickly shifts the pickups based on what note you are fretting (watch the fingers or you'll have them sheared off LOL.) This would be ridiculously expensive to implement.

Originally Posted by uethanian

i totally understand the thing about 'sweet spots' not existing. but let me throw something out there.

what if the pickup was in such a position so that for a majority of fretted notes (or at least the most common fretted notes), even harmonics lie over the pickup. it would possible, however difficult, to map out the lower level harmonics for each fretted length of string. it wouldn't be too hard to avoid the 5th and 7th harmonics. then its just a matter of choosing the best fit. i really don't feel its that important, but just an idea.

of course, everyone has a different idea of what a 'sweet spot' is. for me, i would say an even mixture between closed and open tone. for others, something else.