Plywood: bad, sure, but how bad? (and other cheap materials)

[Taylor Livingston]

I have an urge to build myself something for Festivus this year. I have designed tons of weirdo instruments, but they are all in various states of incomplete (most only exist on paper). I resolve to actually get something finished soon.

However, there is an important consideration: I am broke. I cannot afford to spend a bunch of money on nice wood right now.

The instrument will be a big plank of wood (or something), with frets underneath the entire length of the strings, and a number of strings (somewhere between 8 and 15). It will have a pickup at each end of the fretboard, as well as one in the center. The idea here is that when I tap a note, rather than only hearing one segment of string, I will hear both vibrating parts of the string: one on either side my finger. Further, by having a pickup in the center of the string, I have the ability to get 3 notes per string.

Before you say it, yes, the result will not be harmonically related by the standards of 12 TET harmony. That's the point. If you're itching to post something like "this is going to sound terrible!" please don't, you would be wasting both my time and yours.

Ok, so if I used plywood, what negative outcomes could I expect? I tried to find the weight of plywood in lbs/cubic foot, and though I couldn't find that, it appears it is something like 35 lbs, similar to maple, so not horrible (heavy, yes, but not unbearable - plus this won't be a wearable instrument anyway). Should I cut it into strips and laminate them? I can probably get away with low tension on the strings, so maybe lamination wouldn't be necessary to hold up to the tension.

Any other suggestions for cheap material that's available in lengths around 60"? I'd like to use bamboo since it is so sustainable, but the flat, laminated stuff isn't that cheap.

[penguinbassist]

Wow. Three notes at a time. You're gonna get some REALLY freaky harmonics.

[Taylor Livingston]

I sure hope so.

[uethanian]

screw 12TET, go for it

sounds very large though, why not start smaller? i'm picturing in my mind a dulcimer type construction...that is, a triangular or trapezoidal frame that holds the string mountings (and consequently all string tension), and then a thin sheet of wood covering the top (this would be the 'fretboard').

but i think you may have overlooked something. when you normally tap on a fretted instrument, the side of the string stopped by the fret sounds correctly. yet for the other side of the string to be a mathematically true inverse (if that's what you are going for), it would have to be stopped by the same fret, and not your finger.

if you finger a note on a fretless bass, and pluck both sides of the string, you'll notice a bit of inharmonicity. the pitch on the 'normal side' of the string may be correct, but the pitch on the 'other side' of the string will be too sharp, due to the width of a persons finger.

so what i'm trying to say is, if pure inverse relationships are your goal, you'll have to effectively tap or stop a string directly on top of a fret, rather than to its side.

[sonic assassin]

go for it.. and when you post clips... ill be sure to cover my dogs' ears.

i always wondered about the other side of the string, but the other side always sounds ugly. then again, ive been known to purposefully pull strings off the fretboard to make ugly noise. and lately ive decided that clacking my B string against the pickup pole makes a cool noise.

so whatever works! but im with him ^.. sounds really big. id start with 5 or 6 strings first.. something like a chapman stick is what i see.

[Taylor Livingston]

No, I'm not going for any particular tuning relationship. I'm imagining it as sounding like a ring modulator. I am going to either scallop the "fretboard" or just hack up some really tall frets somehow, so that the string will be fretted by 2 adjacent frets, rather than a fret on one side and my finger on the other. This is going to be pretty seat-of-the-pants, since I overanalyze all my other projects, and as a result, never complete (or, often, even start) them.

[leppikallio]

Go for it, this really sounds interesting and cool.

I honestly don't have a clue about tonal properties of ply however I can tell that at least the birch plywood we have around here is _really_ good quality and extremely tough. No reason to cut it to strips and laminate, I bet it would be hard to make better glue job there is already. Besides plywood, the one I know, is "cross-laminated" so it really is stiff material in all directions. Only downside is that it is pretty tough material for machine blades as well. I made my workbenches top from 2" thick film surfaced birch ply and it was really hard to drill 3/4" holes in it even with carbide tipped drillbit. Wouldn't even try with regular ones.

Odd instruments are fun even thought my point of view is more from artistic side. Some examples, hopefully not too much out off topic.

http://www.wildwoodgallery.co.nz/Woo...nes.guitar.jpg

http://leppikallio.blogspot.com/2008...like-harp.html
http://leppikallio.blogspot.com/2008...r-part-ii.html

[T-Bird]

Hi.

A neat idea.

The (birch) plywood we have in here up north isn't cheap though. And as leppikallio above said, extremely tough for the tools and hard to work with.

If You use power tools and can't sharpen Your blades and other tools yourself, I'd say the savings in materials will be spent manyfold in tools or sharpening.

If You can get cheap, quality plywood, by all means go for it. I believe I've seen even MDF basses being illustrated here, so it's not the materials, but rather the person using the material that counts. IMHO as always.

Regards
Sam

[Taylor Livingston]

Odd instruments are fun even thought my point of view is more from artistic side. Some examples, hopefully not too much out off topic.

http://www.wildwoodgallery.co.nz/Woo...nes.guitar.jpg

http://leppikallio.blogspot.com/2008...like-harp.html
http://leppikallio.blogspot.com/2008...r-part-ii.html

Very cool work. You should submit your instruments to Oddmusic, I'm sure they'd love to showcase it.

[leppikallio]

Originally Posted by conical johnson

Very cool work. You should submit your instruments to Oddmusic, I'm sure they'd love to showcase it.

Thanks. And thank you for the tip. I hope they'll fix their contact form, I sure will send them some pictures in case they are interested.

[Ol'Bass'ead]

My poiint of view is that this is an experiment. It is a concept that you have no idea what the actual outcome is going to be. So I wouldnt waste any good wood on it. See if it works first. And as far as using plywood for a body wood, I remember a lot of Strat copies from the 70's that were made with plywood. Glue it up well, and the type of wood will matter less then the hardness of the glue.

[Taylor Livingston]

So how would you suggest I do it? I could probably buy plywood thick enough that I wouldn't need to glue it at all. But the laminations would be "horizontal" (parallel to the fret plane).

[Ol'Bass'ead]

I would use 3/4" ply-its cheap and plentiful-and just glue to the thickness you need. Or, -1/4" and put a pretty top on it and paint the back-no-one will ever know :-)

[pinkzepphish]

DANGIT! you took my both-ends-of-the-fretboard-pickup idea!!! i was totally gonna do that aw man.

[Taylor Livingston]

There's no reason you can't still do it. There already are people who have done pickups at both ends anyway.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

My suggestion is that You don't try horizontally laminated neck.

Like Ol'Bass'ead said, just laminate from strips.

There's a thread about it, it was last spring IIRC.

You can test it Yourself. Cut a square strip and bend it in both directions, chances are that You'll notice the difference . Especially if You leave it under pressure for a while.

Regards
Sam

[Ol'Bass'ead]

I was under the impression that this would end as a solid body, so I'm not sure where the strips came from. Oh, and you shouldnr use ply fro the neck-a short piece of maple isnt that expensive.

[Taylor Livingston]

Well, as I imagine it, the whole thing is a neck. It's just a big plank. But anyway, I guess I'll just go for it and see how it goes.

[jordan_frerichs]

Originally Posted by Ol'Bass'ead

I was under the impression that this would end as a solid body, so I'm not sure where the strips came from. Oh, and you shouldnr use ply fro the neck-a short piece of maple isnt that expensive.

how are you going to accomplish the pickup at the beggining? i can think of 2 ways. the first, would be to put it where the first frets would be. the second, would be to find a way for the headstock/non-headstock, angle a little, be thicker, rout the pup into it, and glue the nut onto the pup, and than pass the strings though a zero fret. will the fingerboard be maple? i know an ebay seller that sells padouk for pretty cheap. not as cheap as pine, but maybe a little more than maple on average (it is in bids, not buy it now) if you want i can point him out. i thinkhis user name is exoticwoods2000. i can find his ebay store if you would like.
good luck on ths. i keep hearing the crazy idea of putting pickups in to fingerboard, but not see anyone with the balls to put a good try at it. i think it would be more practical coming up with an internal piezo system for the fingerboard, so all frets would be useable, but i imagine that would cost a wad. seems like a great idea to me. why do piezoes have to be so expensive!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Ol'Bass'ead]

Yeah Jordan, that was the way I was going to recommend. But I was going to suggest he put peizos under the nut like an acoustic bridge.