Q: Fretting before...

pilotjones · #1 01-22-2007, 12:00 PM

I've been thinking about a neck design, which suggested an unusual construction method, which could potentially be easier if the fretting were done before the neck back profile was carved.

My question is, before I (mentally) travel too far down that road, what would be the possible disadvantages of fretting before finishing the profile carving? Protecting the frets from getting banged up or scratched would be one. Does anyone have any other thoughts?

Thanks everybody.

Musiclogic · #2 01-22-2007, 12:09 PM

Keeping the neck flat would be another. When you fret a neck, you create a slight backbow, thus making it much harder to create a consistent parallel carve. As you remove material the neck will back bow ever so slightly more as you go along. This could create a mjor problem in shaping a consistent neck.

pilotjones · #3 01-22-2007, 03:19 PM

Good point. Thank you.

FBB Custom · #4 01-22-2007, 03:35 PM

Carving the neck may release stresses causing the neck to move. It's not to say people don't do it that way. I have done it both ways but I think consensus is to do it after the neck is carved.

basey · #5 01-22-2007, 04:44 PM

I remember a method Erlewine talked about in his book where the slots were cut to .050 and the frets were epoxied in.
That whould eliminate the backbow problem and probably make for a more stable neck.
Just a thought.

pilotjones · #6 01-22-2007, 10:55 PM

Matt

did you run into the problems you mention? Or are you just (rightfully) aware that it's a definite possibility?

Do people generally (re-)level and then radius the fretboard after carving the back, to correct for any neck movement that may have taken place as a result of the profiling?

Suburban · #7 01-23-2007, 06:22 AM

No experience here, but I would at least check for both bend and twist after recarving the back. Probably refinish the frets.

And another thing: watch the edges of the carving tools...
And...stay away from the woodshop if you use any machines! You don't need much to start a fire in sawdust, perhaps even a handtool can cause the spark.

pilotjones · #8 01-23-2007, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburban

And another thing: watch the edges of the carving tools...

Yes, any shaping near the already-installed frets should probably be done with abrasives or files only, not cutting tools.

Quote:

And...stay away from the woodshop if you use any machines! You don't need much to start a fire in sawdust, perhaps even a handtool can cause the spark.

Yes, I keep my machine shop far away from my wood shop (different corners of my brain!)

FBB Custom · #9 01-23-2007, 09:12 AM

I have had necks move a bit on me after carving. I usually carve right after cutting the taper now. Radius and fret after that.

JP Basses · #10 01-23-2007, 09:56 AM

I've done it this way peter and never had any problems. I switch to fretting after carving though...

If I'm right, George at Fbass is still fretting before carving as i've been able to see on some progress pics that Adrian garcia had posted a while back.

Peace,
JP

msherman · #11 01-23-2007, 10:02 AM

I`ve done them both ways before. What I do now is taper the F/B before it`s glued onto the neck.
Then I pre-radius the F/B before carving the neck.
Once the neck is carved, I put a 1/4 - 1/2 turn on the truss rod to give it a slight back-bow, and then true the F/B board.

By doing this, it compensates for the "Compression Fretting"
(the back-bow created by the wedging effect of the frets).

erikbojerik · #12 01-23-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msherman

By doing this, it compensates for the "Compression Fretting"
(the back-bow created by the wedging effect of the frets).

I like that!

pilotjones · #13 01-23-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musiclogic

...When you fret a neck, you create a slight backbow...

This reminds me of something I saw, I think it was on David King's site. After fretting, he (or whoever it is I'm thinking of) puts his necks between two tables, and STANDS on them to set the fret tangs into the wood! My guess is that this would also remove at least some of any fret-induced backbow.

PaleMelanesian · #14 01-23-2007, 03:07 PM

David does talk about doing that, but just to the fretboard, before gluing it to the neck shaft.

I also saw a picture of the owner of Warwick actually standing on a finished instrument between 2 chairs.

pilotjones · #15 01-24-2007, 11:41 AM

Just checked DK's site. He does this after the fretboard is on the neck. He also does it with "ebony and other very hard fingerboards" only, with the stated aim of correcting the induced backbow.

pilotjones · #16 01-24-2007, 11:49 AM

OK, now, a further question: on a bound neck, is binding always done after shaping the back? Which would then make the fretting come after that.

Scott French · #17 01-24-2007, 02:04 PM

On my bound necks I build the FB with binding and all before it even gets glued onto the neck blank. Then shape then neck, then radius, then fret.

pilotjones · #18 01-24-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott French

On my bound necks I build the FB with binding and all before it even gets glued onto the neck blank. Then shape then neck, then radius, then fret.

So, you slot the fretboard, then bind it, then glue it to the neck, taper the sides of the neck to the FB, shape the back of the neck, then radius the FB and fret it, right?

Scott French · #19 01-24-2007, 06:05 PM

Yep, and to be even more specific, I slot the board, then taper it, then bind, etc, etc, etc.