String spcaing at the nut?

[allenhumble]

If I want 19mm spacing at the bridge, what would the most common spacing be at the nut?

[Rodent]

nuts are usually designated by the overall neck width, and the spacing is typically not recorded. a typical 4-string J-bass has a 1-1/2" nut, a 4-string P-bass is 1-3/4". you usually leave a 1/8" space between the edge of the neck and the outer edge of the string - this is typical for both the upper and lower string

string spacing is normally only designated at the bridge, where it is most common for the strings to have an equal centerline spacing.

all the best,

R

[allenhumble]

Thanks

[Chad Michael]

3/8" center to center is perfect.

[Rodent]

Originally Posted by bimplizkit

3/8" center to center is perfect.

use this only if you prefer very uneven string spacing at the nut

come to think of it, I don't recall ever having a client prefer even string centerlines at the nut. is there really someone out there who prefers equal string centerlines at the nut over equal string spacing (which dictates uneven centerline spacing)?

even string centerlines at the bridge, sure - but not even string centerlines at the nut this just sounds like something from a Hitchcock movie

all the best,

R

[Jonsbasses]

Never go by center lines, nut or bridge (regarding individual bridges, that is). It will throw your instrument off a great deal for 6+ string basses. I prefer 9mm - 10mm string spacing at the nut. I may be trying a little tighter in the future.

[erikbojerik]

+1

Just to be crystal clear....just saying "string spacing" at the nut or "string spacing" at the bridge gives only the basic idea.

When it comes to actually laying out the slots with precision, you have to decide between "gaps" or "centers". Equal centers will give you unequal gaps because the width of each string is different.

99.9% of bridges are spec'ed using equal centers, but nuts are usually cut with equal gaps, or sometimes un-equal gaps. If you want to see this, get yo bad self a digital caliper and head to Guitar Center to measure their nuts.

I did an equal-centers nut for my first-ever build (a travel guitar) and it feels wierd. All the rest of my builds have equal gaps.

[Chad Michael]

I'm not a luthier, but I know what I like and it seemed that allenhumble wanted some opinions here. So I gave mine...

If allenhumble would like exact measurements of "c to c" or "spacing between" for my basses - a 5 string Pedulla ThunderBass, or 5 string Lightwave Sabre C, I would be happy to measure them using my dial caliper (measures in thousandths of an inch).

But... long story short.... about 3/8" c to c feels right to me.

If anyone just wants to argue and split hairs, then I'll gladly just leave this thread alone.

[DavidRavenMoon]

Originally Posted by Rodent

is there really someone out there who prefers equal string centerlines at the nut over equal string spacing (which dictates uneven centerline spacing)?

Yes, I do. Your finger contacts the top of the crown of the string, and that is on its centerline. How thick the strng is makes no difference. You touch the top of the arc. That's the way it's been done for centuries. I'd bet it's harder to find a bass or guitar (or upright bass, or any stringed instrument) with the nut not cut to the center lines.

Also, cutting your nut using the distance between the outside surfaces of the strings only works as long as you don't change string gauges. And even if you stay with the same over all gauge, it might vary if you change brands.

Bridges use center lines, and I'd say the majority of the nuts out there are cut to the center line of the strings. You also have to think about the pickups... I've never seen a pickup with pole pieces that were not evenly spaced. Spacing by the distance between the outsides of the strings does not evenly space the centers of the strings... where the core wire is.

Surly if you bridge is a standard type of unit, you should follow suit with the nut, or your spacing will not be consistent from one end to the other.

Getting back to the original question... what nut spacing your prefer is personal preference. Some people like wide bridges and skinny nuts, like on a Jazz Bass, while other prefer them wider at the nut, like a P bass. Mark King likes the same spacing at both nut and bridge!

There is no right and wrong. Everyone has their own way of doing things.

I decide on the spacing from low to high string, and then plan the neck out that way. It's a good idea to draw it out to scale. Once you know the spacing at the bridge and nut, you can add the 1/8" or so on the outside edges of the neck. But you don't do your neck first... you have the know what the nut is. That decides the feel of the neck.

[erikbojerik]

Anyone is certainly free to cut their own personal nuts anyway they want.

But when it comes to production basses and guitars, the nuts are definitely NOT cut on equal centers. They are equal gaps within a few thousandths. Stone cold fact...at least for Fenders, Alembics, Ken Smiths, Stingrays, Warwicks and Peaveys (the ones I've measured).

[DavidRavenMoon]

Originally Posted by erikbojerik

But when it comes to production basses and guitars, the nuts are definitely NOT cut on equal centers.

OK, I have a new ESP/LTD F-255F M here I'm working on (7.9mm G-D, 8.4mm D-A, 9.9mm A-E, 10.2mm E-B). But that's a newer thing... let's see what else I have here... I have a Tele replacement neck... 7.1mm on every string. A brand new US Fender Strat I'm doing a setup on... 7.51mm across every string. I have a '72 Fender Mustang... 6.9mm every string. late 50's Danelectro... 7.1mm every string. Two 1973 Rickenbacker 4001's.. 10.02 mm every string. 1981 Les Paul... 6.78 mm every string. 1974 P bass, 10 mm every string. Any Floyd nut... '59 Jazz master... you get the point.

What instruments did you measure, and what tool did you use? I'm using a digital caliper.

[#include <MK>]

Originally Posted by erikbojerik

But when it comes to production basses and guitars, the nuts are definitely NOT cut on equal centers.

I wouldn't say this is the case for all production basses and guitars. In addition to those that David mentioned, a Steinburger bass I measured has equal centres at the nut and bridge.

[erikbojerik]

Er...uh...well....umm....meh...<cough>....my bad....I am guilty of mis-reading my own spreadsheet! Serves me right for trying to surf & watch football at the same time (damn those Seahawks...).

Most of the basses I measured are indeed closer to equal centers, except the Fender Jazz 5 is equal gaps, and the Alembic 5 and Peavey Cirrus 5 are equal nothing...perhaps poorly cut nuts.

CTC=center to center
ETE=edge to edge

Going from low to high (fat to thin strings) in inches on the digital caliper, each and every gap measured precisely...

Stingray 5
CTC: 0.365-0.360-0.364-0.351
ETE: 0.252-0.272-0.298-0.302

Ken Smith 5
CTC: 0.363-0.357-0.345-0.339
ETE: 0.248-0.264-0.273-0.283

Warwick Thumb 5
CTC: 0.371-0.364-0.361-0.361
ETE: 0.252-0.268-0.284-0.304

Peavey Cirrus 5
CTC: 0.365-0.370-0.350-0.388
ETE: 0.246-0.276-0.276-0.332

Alembic 5
CTC: 0.390-0.391-0.377-0.346
ETE: 0.272-0.297-0.303-0.290

Fender Jazz 5
CTC: 0.423-0.413-0.391-0.371
ETE: 0.300-0.315-0.315-0.315

The guitars I have here now seem to be all over the place...

1993 Les Paul Studio (closer to equal centers)
CTC: 0.273-0.284-0.284-0.277-0.277
ETE: 0.232-0.253-0.262-0.262-0.265

1979 Les Paul Deluxe (closer to equal centers)
CTC: 0.263-0.263-0.268-0.268-0.277
ETE: 0.222-0.232-0.247-0.253-0.265

1992 Fender MIM Strat (closer to equal centers)
CTC: 0.240-0.275-0.279-0.272-0.262
ETE: 0.199-0.244-0.257-0.257-0.250

1995 Ovation acoustic (closer to equal gaps)
CTC: 0.284-0.278-0.269-0.262-0.251
ETE: 0.236-0.239-0.240-0.242-0.237

...but note that #1 none of the guitars have equal spacing (gaps or centers) except the Ovation and #2 the defining characteristic of the electric guitar nut spacings (as opposed to the basses) is a narrowing of the gaps for the two heaviest strings. This alone makes the guitars closer to equal-centers (if you calculate the std dev of the measurements), but they truly are not equal centers (nor equal gaps).

Clear as mud...

[DavidRavenMoon]

The small deviations you see in equal spacing is because the slots were cut by hand. Like they say, close enough for rock and roll!