Super ambitious First Build, no woodworking experience..!!

[suraj]

Originally Posted by RAMUSIC

Hey Suraj!

I've been following this thread for a while now, finally jumping in. I'm no luthier, however I have to ask, do you have another bass you can use as a testing platform for the pickups? I know it won't give you quite a precise idea as to how they sound on this bass, but it might save some headaches. Otherwise, my common sense vote is that you go with option #3. I'm sure there are others with more experience who can direct you better though, as I'm sure there are options or caveats I haven't thought of. Excellent work so far though, I can't wait to see the end result!

Thank you for the compliment Testing the pickup on another bass in different positions is actually a good idea. But My other basses are 34" standard scale basses. This is a 37-34 fanned, so I guess fretless testing on this bass will be better than fretted testing on my other basses

But I guess I could go after the other approach of looking at other manufacturers standards, just not too sold on that approach.

Originally Posted by Meatrus

As your a first timer you definitely want to fret it before finishing the neck. Its easy to put some marks on the edges of the neck with a slip of the file or paper. As for the finish coat on the fingerboard I would use a very thin layer and rub it right in (repeat as necessary) you wont want too much build up or it will be fragile and wear will be obvious.

You dont want to finish it before routing for pups either!

I guess your right, I could easily mark up the finish. I will use a file in a block for flush and bevel filing the edges. So i'm not worried about slipping with the files. Although the little marks I end up making on the fretboard sides with a fine file can be wet sanded out right ?

I want to pore fill the fretboard and apply a thin finish. Doing that with frets on seems like it could be odd and difficult.

Another thought is to fret the bass after its got a few sealer coats of shellac and leave the fretboard like that. After the sealer coats, I could test the bass, Route the pickup cavities, seal those too, and finish the bass, leaving the fretboard with pores and no finish, just some shellac.

[jaxstarke]

I read each and every page not wanting to skip to the end and when I got here....no finished bass!!! HA! Man, I can't wait to see what it looks like finished. Going to look awesome. Super job on it so far.

[suraj]

Haha, its the journey my friend Thank you

[suraj]

Haven't gotten much time recently and won't be able to enter the garage for a week. Got ten minutes in the garage the other day, so I clicked a teaser



Until next week..

EDIT : This photo shows what I forgot to show earlier. Notice how the chamfer from the bass wing tapers down and blends into the forearm contour. The forearm part needs some work but you get the idea. Any comments on the knobs ?

[Smilodon]

What are all those knobs and switches for? And are you sure that you have enough of them?


Have you considered making some knobs from wenge?

[suraj]

lol, yes I'm gonna make do with the bare minimum

Since this is my first bass, I wan't to put in a lot of options in terms of electronics, for the sake of experimentation. There will be a lot of permutations and combinations, a lot of which will be redundant, but that's what I want to find out. On a future build, I can extract the useful electronic combinations, thereby retaining only the useable options. Also I like the look of lots of switches and knobs that's because i'm a tweaker

There are 6 knobs and 4 switches, and I will be winding two humbuckers, So there is -

Volume, with active passive swich in the pot.
Blend knob, for blending neck and bridge pups.

Near the blend are two - series, single coil, parallel switches, one for each humbucker.

A master series parallel switch between the two humbuckers, or even if they are in single coil mode.

The last switch is the the LED switch for the fiber optics in the fretboard.

Other knobs -

Bass
Mid
Mid frequency sweep
Treble



About the knobs, honestly I don't like how wooden knobs look I like the aesthetic of an instrument where different materials and finishes come together. According to me, wood knobs and wood pickup covers make the bass look too, well, woody I like how matte finished black plastic looks and feels as a pickup cover, and metal or even plastic black knobs look. I'm gonna try and make my pickup covers out of black plastic, with a polished edge of metal binding, like the knobs.

I'm even planning on a pickguard

[Hopkins]

Your knob/switch arrangement looks a little haphazard to me. I would lay it out where your knobs EQ knobs are in a line just below your Vol and Blend knobs, with the switches directly underneath the EQ knobs.

And JMHO, I would loose the little caps on the switches and just use the metal toggle.

[Nomad98]

I am certainly not a wiring expert but you may be able to consolidate the number of knobs by using push pull and concentric knobs. IMHO all those knobs take a very tasteful looking bass and detract from it. I get the experiment but there may be a way to consolidate and keep the visual appeal you have worked so hard to get.

Or you can put a whole bunch of knobs and switches on it.

[Smilodon]

Originally Posted by suraj

lol, yes I'm gonna make do with the bare minimum

Since this is my first bass, I wan't to put in a lot of options in terms of electronics, for the sake of experimentation. There will be a lot of permutations and combinations, a lot of which will be redundant, but that's what I want to find out. On a future build, I can extract the useful electronic combinations, thereby retaining only the useable options. Also I like the look of lots of switches and knobs that's because i'm a tweaker

There are 6 knobs and 4 switches, and I will be winding two humbuckers, So there is -

Volume, with active passive swich in the pot.
Blend knob, for blending neck and bridge pups.

Near the blend are two - series, single coil, parallel switches, one for each humbucker.

A master series parallel switch between the two humbuckers, or even if they are in single coil mode.

The last switch is the the LED switch for the fiber optics in the fretboard.

Other knobs -

Bass
Mid
Mid frequency sweep
Treble



About the knobs, honestly I don't like how wooden knobs look I like the aesthetic of an instrument where different materials and finishes come together. According to me, wood knobs and wood pickup covers make the bass look too, well, woody I like how matte finished black plastic looks and feels as a pickup cover, and metal or even plastic black knobs look. I'm gonna try and make my pickup covers out of black plastic, with a polished edge of metal binding, like the knobs.

I'm even planning on a pickguard

I see.

I get the whole nice to have options thing, but maybe it would be a good idea to do a test run before drilling any holes? I did the mistake of making it too complicated on my first build. Luckily that was a P-bass style bass, so it was easy to go back to a simpler setup by replacing the pickguard. But of course, you know best what you need.

As for the layout, it does look a bit "messy" right now. Maybe you could group the knobs to follow the contour of the body, and make a "line" of switches between the knobs and the playing area?

I get what you mean by not liking wooded knobs. I'm not a big fan of them myself, but in this particular case I think it could looks nice. Don't get me wrong, though. I think the ones you have there look very nice.

[SolarMan]

Wow, what a labor of love!

As far as knobs, I think Water Buffalo horn would look great on that bass. Not woody, but not metallic or plastic either.



Really gives a quality look.

[suraj]

Originally Posted by Hopkins

Your knob/switch arrangement looks a little haphazard to me. I would lay it out where your knobs EQ knobs are in a line just below your Vol and Blend knobs, with the switches directly underneath the EQ knobs.

And JMHO, I would loose the little caps on the switches and just use the metal toggle.

Lol I just place the knobs and switches in their approximate position, but they're not gonna be very off from the picture

There is actually a lot of thought and reason behind the placement of everything, which I will explain right after this post. Basically I have grouped things that are doing similar things. Detailed explanation to follow. If you still think that its a little messy, I'll take a picture of the knobs in your suggested arrangement and see how that looks. Thanks for the input really appreciated

EDIT: I will lose the black switch knobs. I don't like them either

Originally Posted by Nomad98

I am certainly not a wiring expert but you may be able to consolidate the number of knobs by using push pull and concentric knobs. IMHO all those knobs take a very tasteful looking bass and detract from it. I get the experiment but there may be a way to consolidate and keep the visual appeal you have worked so hard to get.

Or you can put a whole bunch of knobs and switches on it.

I'm not a wiring expert either I only know how to solder. When I get to the wiring stage, I will start a thread in the electronics forum where I hope to find someone who tells me - "solder that wire there" I'm not even good at reading circuit diagrams.

I actually opted out of concentric knobs, as I couldn't find them at a good price shipped or in the finish or colour I wanted. Plus finding the right pots for those knobs was getting troublesome.

I could use the push pull knob only for the volume, as I only purchased the volume and blend pots. The EQ pots would come with the preamp.

I didn't feel that all the knobs and switches were taking away from the appeal. I'll post another head on picture of the bass.

Originally Posted by Smilodon

I see.

I get the whole nice to have options thing, but maybe it would be a good idea to do a test run before drilling any holes? I did the mistake of making it too complicated on my first build. Luckily that was a P-bass style bass, so it was easy to go back to a simpler setup by replacing the pickguard. But of course, you know best what you need.

As for the layout, it does look a bit "messy" right now. Maybe you could group the knobs to follow the contour of the body, and make a "line" of switches between the knobs and the playing area?

I get what you mean by not liking wooded knobs. I'm not a big fan of them myself, but in this particular case I think it could looks nice. Don't get me wrong, though. I think the ones you have there look very nice.

I know what you mean. Once I drill the holes there's no turning back. I will actually do a test run before drilling holes, so I won't be committed till the end.

I didn't think a line of switches made sense, functionally. As each switch is for a very different function. I will post my layout design thoughts that led to this layout. Let me know if that makes sense

I guess I'm a little lazy also to make wooden knobs after such a long build

Originally Posted by SolarMan

Wow, what a labor of love!

As far as knobs, I think Water Buffalo horn would look great on that bass. Not woody, but not metallic or plastic either.



Really gives a quality look.

That actually looks cool..!! even sounds exotic I guess I could look into that for another build. Too much money spent on this one anyway.




So my next post will better show my electronics layout and the thoughts behind them. Stay tuned, and your inputs and criticisms are highly appreciated. After all this forum has taught me everything

Peace

[suraj]

Ok so here are my thoughts on the layout, but first lets look at another view of the layout on the actual bass







This explains the placement and grouping -



To me, the position of each switch and each knob automatically gives me an idea of what it controls. The pickup selection group has each pickup switch on either side of the blend knob, depicting the pickup it controls. The volume knob is placed away for easy access, and the EQ section goes from low to high, with the mid knob and the mid frequency sweep knob being a tad close to each other

Let me know what you guys think

[Smilodon]

I get what you are trying to do from an electrical standpoint. From a usage standpoint it doesn't make sense to me to move the blend pot from the test of them.


I always think that pickup selection is something you may change during or between songs. Series/parallel and EQ settings probably won't be changed much after you have started playing.

Placing the mid and mid sweep closer makes sense, but not enough sense to sacrifice the aesthetics of even spacing between knobs.

I guess this is the ever ongoing battle between aesthetics and functionality.

[suraj]

I guess you guys are right, in all ways. The only reason my arrangement makes sense to me is that the position of each knob and switch depicts its function. But this bass is for me, and I will learn what knob and switch does what in a matter of an hour, so an aesthetic arrangement makes more sense

Originally Posted by Nomad98

IMHO all those knobs take a very tasteful looking bass and detract from it. I get the experiment but there may be a way to consolidate and keep the visual appeal you have worked so hard to get.

I see now what you mean when you say that. After I tried a few different arrangements in photoshop (pics to follow), I realized that some arrangements complimented the bass, while mine contradicted it to an extent.

Originally Posted by Smilodon

I see.

As for the layout, it does look a bit "messy" right now. Maybe you could group the knobs to follow the contour of the body, and make a "line" of switches between the knobs and the playing area?

I have tried this arrangement in photoshop, and it looks the best to me from the other arrangements I put together. Pics to follow.

Originally Posted by Smilodon

Placing the mid and mid sweep closer makes sense, but not enough sense to sacrifice the aesthetics of even spacing between knobs.

I guess this is the ever ongoing battle between aesthetics and functionality.

I agree







Ok now I started photoshopping the picture posted above and rearranging all knobs and switches. After playing around a bit, a few looked decent -

PS : In Photoshop, I drew lines to mock the strings, frets and pickups



The original arrangement -



And the playing around -

Lets call this 1







2







3







4

[MostlyBass]

I like the knob and switch arrangement. Logical and easy to adjust on the fly. I have some concentric pot on mine and sometimes it's a bit cumbersome making quick adjustments. I had some custom knobs made so the bottom is knurled and a few millimeters wider than the top - much better!

Great looking bass!!

[SallyGrowler]

Pardon my criticism.
I like the look of the instrument. It is a stunning build!
However, Too many knobs and switches.
If you need all of that, go with stacked or push/pull knobs.

The instrument should be ready to play and intuitive to the player. If you have to memorize switches and combinations to dial up a desired tone, you will ultimately find your true tone and probably go to it every time, rendering the rest of the stuff as useless.

Switches and knobs, sweeps, cuts and scoops, don't expand the tonal pallette or voice of the instrument, they restrict it.

A compromise. Four Knobs and One three way switch if you have to have it.

Just my opinion, but too beautiful of a build to cock-up with knobs.

Cindy Crawford has that one little mole that works, if she had 10 of em on her cheek, you'd be running for the door!

[Hopkins]

Originally Posted by SallyGrowler

Cindy Crawford has that one little mole that works, if she had 10 of em on her cheek, you'd be running for the door!

That made me happy

[SolarMan]

Originally Posted by SallyGrowler

Cindy Crawford has that one little mole that works, if she had 10 of em on her cheek, you'd be running for the door!

I depends which cheek!

[jaxstarke]

Originally Posted by SallyGrowler

Pardon my criticism.
I like the look of the instrument. It is a stunning build!
However, Too many knobs and switches.
If you need all of that, go with stacked or push/pull knobs.

The instrument should be ready to play and intuitive to the player. If you have to memorize switches and combinations to dial up a desired tone, you will ultimately find your true tone and probably go to it every time, rendering the rest of the stuff as useless.

Switches and knobs, sweeps, cuts and scoops, don't expand the tonal pallette or voice of the instrument, they restrict it.

A compromise. Four Knobs and One three way switch if you have to have it.

Just my opinion, but too beautiful of a build to cock-up with knobs.

Cindy Crawford has that one little mole that works, if she had 10 of em on her cheek, you'd be running for the door!

+1

[suraj]

Originally Posted by MostlyBass

Great looking bass!!

Thank you

Originally Posted by SallyGrowler

Pardon my criticism.
I like the look of the instrument. It is a stunning build!
However, Too many knobs and switches.
If you need all of that, go with stacked or push/pull knobs.

The instrument should be ready to play and intuitive to the player. If you have to memorize switches and combinations to dial up a desired tone, you will ultimately find your true tone and probably go to it every time, rendering the rest of the stuff as useless.

Switches and knobs, sweeps, cuts and scoops, don't expand the tonal pallette or voice of the instrument, they restrict it.

A compromise. Four Knobs and One three way switch if you have to have it.

Just my opinion, but too beautiful of a build to cock-up with knobs.

I guess your right, but I do want all those electrical options. If I use concentric pots, I can use a stacked volume volume, but then need a separate active-passive switch. Instead, I have a push pull active-passive switch in the volume pot and a separate blend pot. For the preamp, I can opt for a stacked bass/treble arrangement, with a separate mid knob and a separate mid freq. sweep knob. That makes 3 holes for the EQ knobs, 2 holes for the volume and blend knobs. So thats 5 holes for knobs minimum, I am putting 6 without using stacked pots, so there's not much of a difference there in the number of knobs. As far as switches, again 4 is the minimum I need. One for each humbucker, one for series-parallel between the humbuckers, and the LED switch. To an extent, it does crowd up the bass with knobs and switched but they don't necessarily look bad. There are so many basses that have a lot of electrical options. I do not feel that switches and
cuts and boosts restrict the tonal pallet. I guess they don't expand it either, but add a layer of tweak-ability.

Originally Posted by SallyGrowler

Cindy Crawford has that one little mole that works, if she had 10 of em on her cheek, you'd be running for the door!

I don't like to think of pretty knobs as moles





I guess i'm gonna hold the debate of too many knobs and wiring options till later. As of now the bass needs a lot of other work done