Tru Oil versus chatoyance

DougP · #1 07-23-2007, 06:06 AM

i've got a nice bubinga top with some chatoyance and i'm looking for an oil finish to bring it out. is tru oil good for this? i'm also looking at Tried & True danish oil. i have no experience with either of these products. can i expect good results from either of them or am i going in the wrong direction?

Thanks

T2W · #2 07-23-2007, 06:20 AM

Never worked with Tru Oil, only Tung and Danish oil, the nice thing about danish is that it doesnt darken the wood, as opposed to Tung, interesting for a Bubinga top.

62bass · #3 07-23-2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougP

i've got a nice bubinga top with some chatoyance and i'm looking for an oil finish to bring it out. is tru oil good for this? i'm also looking at Tried & True danish oil. i have no experience with either of these products. can i expect good results from either of them or am i going in the wrong direction?

Thanks

I'm assuming it's bare, unfinished wood at this point. I haven't used Tru Oil but have seen a couple things done with it and it looks very good. I've used Tried and True and it works well too but I found I get as good a finish using my home made blend of equal amounts of boiled linseed oil, alkyd varnish and mineral spirits. But if you can get True Oil, might as well use that. The homemade blend is cheap and gives a pretty tough finish but the cost of Tru oil in such a small amount won't break the bank.

I don't think you're going in the wrong direction. With careful work you'll get a gorgeous finish that really brings out the character of the wood. I also like the darkening effect the oil finishes give. And it's a lot easier to do than spraying on nitro or applying a varnish coating.

DougP · #4 07-23-2007, 08:05 AM

yup, its still barewood. still being built actually. i have quite a few cut-offs that i will test some different products on before the guitar actually gets any finish.

i just read a poor review of Tried and True over at Fine Woodworkings site. The reviewer said that the finish took over 30 days to dry and that it didnt penetrate very deeply. i can see where shallow penetration may be beneficial in a musical context in that the finish will affect the sound less. the drying time concerns me though.

62bass · #5 07-23-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougP

yup, its still barewood. still being built actually. i have quite a few cut-offs that i will test some different products on before the guitar actually gets any finish.

i just read a poor review of Tried and True over at Fine Woodworkings site. The reviewer said that the finish took over 30 days to dry and that it didnt penetrate very deeply. i can see where shallow penetration may be beneficial in a musical context in that the finish will affect the sound less. the drying time concerns me though.

Yes, I read that one too. The manufacturer replied that it hadn't been applied according to directions. Could be. I used it once and it does take some time to dry but not 30 days if the temperature is above 70F and the humidity not ridiculous. I once used a mixture of linseed oil, varnish and mineral spirits that took a couple weeks to dry but the varnish was a small can I picked up on sale at a paint store going out of business and it had probably been sitting for many years before I got it. After a year or so the drying agents they add to both boiled linseed oil and varnish lose their effectiveness. I probably could have cured that with a bit of Japan dryer.

Yes, for sure experiment on cut offs to decide what works best for you. I wouldn't worry about the finish affecting tone on a solid body instrument and an electric bass no less. Acoustic guitar or violin, yes. However, there are guys who claim they can hear a difference and if it makes them happy, fine. I've found a lot of these guys are guitar players who can't hear the difference between a diminished chord and a major.

SDB Guitars · #6 07-23-2007, 09:14 AM

I have used Tru-Oil on a variety of woods, and I have found that it seems to enhance chatoyance as most any light oil/lacquer/shellac will... that is, the light reflectivity or luminescence of the curl or figure will be enhanced... Tru-Oil can be added in several coats to provide a nice glossy finish, highly reflective, which *looks* a bit like lacquer, but is of course not nearly as durable as a true hard finish. I'm fond of it, though, because it's easy to apply, the fumes are not bad at all, and it is inexpensive. One standard bottle should finish one instrument, IIRC. That shouldn't run you more than about $4 USD

202dy · #7 07-23-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62bass

Yes, I read that one too. The manufacturer replied that it hadn't been applied according to directions. Could be. I used it once and it does take some time to dry but not 30 days if the temperature is above 70F and the humidity not ridiculous. I once used a mixture of linseed oil, varnish and mineral spirits that took a couple weeks to dry but the varnish was a small can I picked up on sale at a paint store going out of business and it had probably been sitting for many years before I got it. After a year or so the drying agents they add to both boiled linseed oil and varnish lose their effectiveness. I probably could have cured that with a bit of Japan dryer.

It is amazing what a small can of Japan dryer on the shelf can do for a finish. Not so much after it's been applied, though. : )

Quote:

Yes, for sure experiment on cut offs to decide what works best for you. I wouldn't worry about the finish affecting tone on a solid body instrument and an electric bass no less. Acoustic guitar or violin, yes. However, there are guys who claim they can hear a difference and if it makes them happy, fine. I've found a lot of these guys are guitar players who can't hear the difference between a diminished chord and a major.

^^^You said a mouthful.

DougP · #8 07-23-2007, 10:59 AM

i'll get a bottle of the Tru-Oil to play with. thanks for the opinions.

Bofee · #9 07-23-2007, 11:20 AM

I've used Tru-Oil on several instruments I've built. It is extremely easy and forgiving to use. Just use thin coats and give ample time between applications for a good cure. Knock down the surface between coats and keep going until you have the finish you want. I've used anywhere from 3 to 10 coats.

pin_head_47 · #10 07-23-2007, 05:05 PM

Am I the only one who wants to see a picture of this top? I'm a real sucker for figured bubinga.

DougP · #11 07-23-2007, 07:26 PM

here it is in it's rough stages.

the chatoyance is mostly in the sapwood section. its a beautiful piece that i picked up from a fellow talkbasser.

62bass · #12 07-23-2007, 09:09 PM

That's beautiful. Yes, the TruOil will bring that out. Also Waterlox Original Sealer Finish would be a good choice.

erikbojerik · #13 07-23-2007, 09:21 PM

Hey Doug!

The top looks great! Tru Oil would be a great choice. Fairly heavy the first 2 coats (10 min soak, wipe of the excess), then thin coats after that (I go 5 coats every 15 minutes, cure overnight, scuff-sand then repeat).
Finish it off with 3 coats cut 50/50 with naptha, cure a week, then hand-buff with a clean Tshirt and wax.

You can also apply poly or nitro over TO after it has fully cured (600 grit scuff first), but then don't wax it if you want to do that.

DougP · #14 07-24-2007, 06:23 AM

any particular brand of wax that you use with tru-oil Erik? as i said, i've never used the stuff. i know a lot of people like Briwax though.

pin_head_47 · #15 07-24-2007, 05:05 PM

That is one sick looking piece of wood, man!

Not to get too off topic, but can you give us some more build details on this beaut?

62bass · #16 07-24-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougP

any particular brand of wax that you use with tru-oil Erik? as i said, i've never used the stuff. i know a lot of people like Briwax though.

I've used Briwax and it's good. There are a couple things to be careful of with it. The solvent used in Briwax is toluene, not mineral spirits, as in most other paste waxes. So it dries very fast and can sometimes dry hard on you before you get to smooth it out. Also, the toluene can soften not quite cured finishes, so if I used it, I'd wait for the Truoil to fully harden. Say 3 weeks or so. Another good paste wax is Antiquax. I've used it and it's as good as any of them.

DougP · #17 07-24-2007, 08:01 PM

sure can. alder body with the bubinga top. the neck is maple with a mahogany center stripe and rosewood fretboard. the headstock has a book-matched piece of bubinga from the same piece of lumber as the body. its going to have a Hipshot hard tail bridge with Sperzel locking tuners and i am going to put some of Carey Nordstrands humbuckers in it.

the neck is a 25" scale with a compound radius of 12"-16" inch on the fretboard. i am using medium sized fret wire like a Gibson.

there are some other things i need to work out. once i do the final routing of the body to its final shape i am going to experiment with some scrap wood to see if a slightly arched top can be achieved.

i also had some issues when i was shaping the volute so i put a backstrap piece of mahogany veneer on the back of the headstock that i need to trim and finish up. i might put a matching piece between the heel block and the neck pocket just to add some visual balance. i still have to look it over and see what i think about that though.

more details can be seen here if its ok for me to post a direct link to my site: http://web.mac.com/douglaspettway/iW...itars/003.html

erikbojerik · #18 07-26-2007, 07:30 AM

Not sure what wax I used, I borrowed it from a friend.

I'd be concerned though about tolulene attacking the TO, even after its cured.

62bass · #19 07-26-2007, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erikbojerik

Not sure what wax I used, I borrowed it from a friend.

I'd be concerned though about tolulene attacking the TO, even after its cured.

I used the Briwax on an alkyd varnish finished Carvin Bolt kit. No problem, but the varnish had sat curing for at least 2 months before I got around to rubbing it out and waxing it. The toluene does evaporate quickly. But for sure I wouldn't do it on a fresh finish and if other waxes are available I'd use them instead. The Antiquax I've been using is easily available here and uses regular mineral spirits as the solvent.

I imagine the Truoil takes longer to completely cure than typical alkyd varnish.