ummmm, so all these posh woodworkers products are actually???

THIRSTYGUMS · #1 05-30-2006, 08:15 PM

Am i missing something or is this Behlen 'woodworkers' Naptha just plain old lighter fluid? And is 'Titebond III' at £10 per bottle just PVA glue?
Dont tell me Ken smith is finishing his basses with Crayola's!!!

Seriously though, i cant find half this stuff (UK) and it seems that there must be some sensible alternatives!
I mean, Stradivarius never saw a B&Q, a Home Depot, or a wal-mart and im pretty sure he never met Stewart Macdonald, he did ok, didn't he???
Just thinking out loud (with keys!?!)

andvari7 · #2 05-30-2006, 10:27 PM

It's not quite like that. Woodworker's naptha is higher purity than lighter fluid, and Titebond III is a different formula of PVA glue (incidentally, I've never heard anything about Titebond III and luthiery; hold off on it until you do). No, Ken is not using Crayolas, and Stradivari (the Italian spelling of his name; you used the Latin) only used what he could get. PVA glue wasn't around back then, and it was all hide glue (possibly from horses). This is a totally different ball game than Stradivarian violinmaking technique.

Sensible alternatives? Sure. Get glass and graphite fibers, some polyester resin, and go Ned Steinberger with your project.

Musiclogic · #3 05-30-2006, 10:37 PM

titebond 3 is basically a stronger more weatherproof version of titebond 2 but it has a longer open air time, thus more time to apply before set up

Suburban · #4 05-31-2006, 01:58 AM

If you can avoid PVA, do so. There is an aliphatic I believe is called Bison(?) which more or less is the same as the Titebond american luthiers use.
The need of naphta is minimal, but when you need naphta, make sure to get good quality ditto. Bad quality naphta ruins the wood.

THIRSTYGUMS · #5 05-31-2006, 05:03 AM

I bought titebond III on the reccomendation of some woodworkers/ craftsmen, i think it should be fine. Where can i get good quality naptha for cleaning down the wood and frets before glueing setting e.t.c? will ronson lighter fluid do the trick? I am just thinking that all the reference material im reading is American and the same stuff thats discussed sells here under different names / brands.

I actually really like stein-burgers! (they remind me of sly and robbie, Asian dub foundation, dub bass, all that good stuff)

tjclem · #6 05-31-2006, 05:19 AM

Last I heard Ken used tightbond 2 I believe......t

NamelessOne · #7 05-31-2006, 07:47 PM

i think i've heard bad things about titebond II and III, something about creeping over time. i've never seen it, but wouldn't want it to happen to me. can someone who knows more about this give thier opinion?

pilotjones · #8 05-31-2006, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjclem

Last I heard Ken used tightbond 2 I believe......t

Yes. Contrary to most luthiers using titebond I, Ken Smith said he uses II only now. IIRC, his story was that he was using both I and II, and he had a steam pipe break in the shop. All the parts joined with I were trashed, all the ones done with II were fine, so he switched to II exclusively.
He stated this in a thread full of people saying that II was no good for luthiery, and his statement that he uses it pretty much put an end to that belief, considering how many top-quality and trouble-free instruments he has produced with it.

If this is not accurate I hope he will post and correct this.

THIRSTYGUMS · #9 06-01-2006, 07:34 AM

Welli bought titebond III and though i like the sound of it being waterproof, i am worried that the glue creeps or is not hard, i dont want the my parts of my bass to slip around like plate tectonics

has any body got any experience with this glue in instrument building?

pilotjones · #10 06-01-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THIRSTYGUMS

Welli bought titebond III and though i like the sound of it being waterproof, i am worried that the glue creeps or is not hard, i dont want the my parts of my bass to slip around like plate tectonics

has any body got any experience with this glue in instrument building?

I understand that there's a fairly extrensine article or archive on this over at MIMforum.

erikbojerik · #11 06-01-2006, 01:52 PM

Well....by using TB1 you're doing a favor to anyone who might one day do repair work on your bass (such as replacing the fretboard or truss rod).

I've heard that TB2 and TB3 don't make as good a joint as TB1, but this might make a difference only for acoustics & such where (a) the woods are thin and joint integrity is critical; and (b) steaming is commonly done for taking it apart for repair or restoration.

Only TB1 for me.

Fasoldt Basses · #12 06-01-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THIRSTYGUMS

Dont tell me Ken smith is finishing his basses with Crayola's!!!

Phil Mastro · #13 06-01-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THIRSTYGUMS

Welli bought titebond III and though i like the sound of it being waterproof, i am worried that the glue creeps or is not hard, i dont want the my parts of my bass to slip around like plate tectonics

has any body got any experience with this glue in instrument building?

I've been using TB III for about 6 months now, and no problems have arised yet. I used to use Lepage white glue, and the only difference I've noticed is that III darkens when dried. It gets kinda dark purple, which I think it's a good thing if you're working with dark woods. I have never tried undoing glue joints with either glue, so I can't help you there.