From WAX/Oil To Poly Urethane:Pros/cons?

[alexlotta]

Hi Guys!
I need Really Your help at that one .
From Months now i own a 6-string Boutique bass(specs at the end of the post,could be imposrtant for tonal suggestion).

As title suggest,
about a possible switching finish :From wax /oil To Poly_urethane.
I love His strong Tone , but a liuther told me that the finish it has
Does NOT protect from Moisture and Dirt , making Him a "studio bass" more than a "gigging one"

I'm not good at taking care of basses Like a nurse,i keep them on the stand and then play.Still i have to apply wax (never did and dunno how).

I understand th. a POly finish Would take Care of moisture ,

but My concern Is:

-1)ABOUT Tone ,would poly change it ? (my Biggest concern) .
ANd If yes ,HOW it would change (more crisp ,more Middish etc).

-2) about Feel :
I love to feel the "Open pores" of the wood (always hated Lacquer type). Is different sensation a poly finish on the hands?

-3)How much protection from DENTING it would produce?I got a little dent on the neck (blame of a cheap edgy Bass_stand).
I figure th. another finish would be more protective.

4)can Poly be applied ON the wax/oil finish directly?

I ask that as this bass has a "red oil" finish .That finish let appear the color of the different Woods more omogeneous,and would like to keep that effect.

!!!UNFORTUNELY, The liuther (aries) did'nt answer To my question about the finish ,so if someone could advice Me
In those terms i would be really Grateful.

Some pics (the first ,darker pic ,is the more close to the real color on my desktop,but is different from pc to Pc):









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SPECS of the bass:
Nech through
NEck Wengè/padouk--Wengè--Padouk/wengè
Ebony gabon fretboard (quite thick)
Body :mahogany ,
Top :Highly figured Bubinga ,
Between Top and Body There is a A Laminate of wengè ,
For tonal purposes.

Sound; A bit like a Warvick ,but a far more Richer flavour I would say.

CAn someone Help me in some Way ?
I know this is a bit "complex "topic,but that is the only "boutique "bass That i did afford to buy with Money sacrifices,
and i'm araid to make the wrong move.

LAst note About the finish ;
Wax or not wax i would like to adjust the little dent i did ,but i think i can't do that if i don recognize the finish As
Finish has to be re_upplied,right?

Well Thank You all in advance ,every help is Highly appreciated

[62bass]

Originally Posted by alexlotta

Hi Guys!
I need Really Your help at that one .
From Months now i own a 6-string Boutique bass(specs at the end of the post,could be imposrtant for tonal suggestion).

As title suggest,
about a possible switching finish :From wax /oil To Poly_urethane.
I love His strong Tone , but a liuther told me that the finish it has
Does NOT protect from Moisture and Dirt , making Him a "studio bass" more than a "gigging one"

I'm not good at taking care of basses Like a nurse,i keep them on the stand and then play.Still i have to apply wax (never did and dunno how).

I understand th. a POly finish Would take Care of moisture ,

but My concern Is:

-1)ABOUT Tone ,would poly change it ? (my Biggest concern) .
ANd If yes ,HOW it would change (more crisp ,more Middish etc).

-2) about Feel :
I love to feel the "Open pores" of the wood (always hated Lacquer type). Is different sensation a poly finish on the hands?

-3)How much protection from DENTING it would produce?I got a little dent on the neck (blame of a cheap edgy Bass_stand).
I figure th. another finish would be more protective.

4)can Poly be applied ON the wax/oil finish directly?

I ask that as this bass has a "red oil" finish .That finish let appear the color of the different Woods more omogeneous,and would like to keep that effect.

!!!UNFORTUNELY, The liuther (aries) did'nt answer To my question about the finish ,so if someone could advice Me
In those terms i would be really Grateful.
_____________________________
LAst note About the finish ;
Wax or not wax i would like to adjust the little dent i did ,but i think i can't do that if i don recognize the finish As
Finish has to be re_upplied,right?

Well Thank You all in advance ,every help is Highly appreciated

1-the tone will not change. This is a thick solid body instrument made of a dense hardwood. To see if this is true or not, take some thick plastic polythene, like from a plastic bag. Tape it down all over the bass body with masking tape. Then plug into your amplifier and play. See if the sound has changed. There are guys who claim they can hear a difference. I believe many of them are on drugs.

2-The feel will change, of course. You're going from a rough feeling finish (by comparison) to a very smooth finish that sits on top of the wood. If you find the poly too smooth for you, dull it down a little bit once it's dry enough with 0000 grade steel wool and some paste wax. That will remove some of the high gloss and impart a satin look and a feel that is more like the oil and wax.

3-there won't be all that much more protection from denting. You'd need a much harder and thicker coating than you will get from store bought polyurethane to do that. However, there will be more protection to the wood from scratching, dirt and other stains which could soak into the wood. The wood will also be better protected from oxidation. The stain will stay in the wood and not rub off.

4-No. The poly, or any other finish will not stick to the wax. It will stick to the oil fine though. You need to remove that wax and any other substances like grease from your hands, dirt, etc. for the poly to bond well.. Paint thinner (like mineral spirits such as Varsol and other brands) or naptha will dissolve the wax and wash it off without harming the oil finih. Wash it down with the paint thinner and a cloth and wipe it dry with another cloth. Repeat this a number of times until you're sure it is clean. Then, very carefully give it a very light polishing with very fine steel wool, the 0000 grade and wash it with varsol once more. It now should be ready to apply the poly.

I would use Minwax Wipe On Poly finish. It is easier to apply than using thick poly from a can with a brush. You apply thin coats using a cotton cloth. It dries qyuickly without attacting much dust. Tou can apply 2 coats per day in normal temperatures. I'd use 6 coats minimum.

Whether or not you can do it yourself depends on if you've used these materials before. If you are very good at following instructions you can be guided through it and get a nice result. To get someone else to do it might cost more than you're willing to pay.

After the poly has dried for at least a few days, you can apply paste wax with a light steel wooling using the 0000 steel wool for that satin look and feel. If you do the job right your oil with red stain will look very nice.

If you decide to not do it, then at least clean up the bass with paint thinner. Then apply a thin coat of good quality furniture paste wax and buff it out by hand with a clean, soft, cotton cloth. Do this once a year. It'll keep your bass looking the way it does now.

The dent might be able to be steamed out, or filled with Crazy Glue and levelled off. That's a completely different job.

[Roland777]

Who are you and where did you get those kickass basses from?! lol

[eleonn]

Hey Alex... you are not gonna say you are Alessandro Lotta right???... You know... the guy that used to be Rhapsody's bass player, are you??? Because if you are I'm gonna rip my balls off!!!!!!!!!!!! And yes I know that is going to hurt!!!

EDIT: Ok... I just looked the site on you sign and yes you are!!!! Ehhh... where did I left my saw???

[alexlotta]

Please don hurt Yourself Unnecessarily eleonn.
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Who are you and where did you get those kickass basses from?! lol

I'm an Italian guy;
I 've got The bass from a croatian Liuther.Great craftmanship ,not so great comunication as for now.

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1-the tone will not change........

THANK's 62BASS !!!,are You a liuther by a chance?
Exhaustive answer really.
I Never USed any of the materials You did mentioned,also i don get exactly (a bit too technical) but i 'll can sort out reading Many times.

The dent might be able to be steamed out, or filled with Crazy Glue and levelled off. That's a completely different job.

The problem regarding to steam the dent is the finish_color ,the liuther did'nt answered me about that ,and i KNOW he did read my Mail/post.

I don't know crazy Glue .The dents are 2 : one is on the Neck and is a light scratch,
unniticeable By hand (Covered the "open pores" sensation i presume).One is on the horn ,a bit deeper.
Nothing impossible to solve, but the liuther friend of mine told me about the finish/color problem i already mentioned.
i Just HATE to Know is there,as it happened so stupidly

Thank You again for the tips,and for Your time.Precious advices.

I DID'nt Know th. before to apply wax i have to clean-up First with "paint thinner" ( "mineral spirits" );
i wonder where i can find the Italian version of that product,i'll have to sort out how is called here(...Naphtha Perhaps?)

Also i'ma bit worried about moisture,yesterday rained and i 've played Outside and 3 drops went on the body,can't know how much that finish can handle water/moisture

Well thank you again!

[eleonn]

Alex 3 drops of water won't do much to your bass while playing and moving from one place to another (lets assuming that those drop didn't went into the control cavity and directly to the preamp). Big and fast changes of moisture in the air is what you should probably be afraid of and glasses with water, beer and such too off course. While gigging too much maybe humidity is something you cannot avoid.

Is for sure that when rains the moisture raises but how much it will raise it will depend on the place where you are. For example here in Lima where we are the whole year between 80% and 99%, when its winter we are almost at between 95% and 99% all the time and rains, the moisture % its not going to raise much more than it is already.

Haven't being in Europe or Italy before to know how dry or humid is the weather there maybe you should try to keep your basses in their cases while gigging as much as possible or at least the ones you care more about.

[Jazzdogg]

62Bass has provided excellent and comprehensive advice.

Most (but not all) urethane is glossier than your existing satin oil finish. If you don't want your bass to become very shiny, select a "satin" urethane instead of gloss or semi-gloss. I have had very good results applying 6-8 coats of satin gel urethane on some of the furniture and tools I make.

If your bass is too shiny after applying the urethane, wait at least a week for the new finish to cure before rubbing-out the finish with well-lubricated fine (0-0-0-0) steel wool.

By the way, all wood will absorb and release moisture, and will expand and contract as it does so, irrespective of the finish that has been applied. Polyurethane will not stop this process, but it will provide more protection against surface moisture than an oil & wax finish will.

Good luck!

[62bass]

[quote=alexlotta;4633537]Please don hurt Yourself Unnecessarily eleonn.
_______________________________________________
THANK's 62BASS !!!,are You a liuther by a chance?

No, but I do a lot of work on my own and others instruments. Also a lot of experience with refinishing furniture.

I DID'nt Know th. before to apply wax i have to clean-up First with "paint thinner" ( "mineral spirits" );
i wonder where i can find the Italian version of that product,i'll have to sort out how is called here(...Naphtha Perhaps?) Quote.

I don't know how to translate "paint thinner" to Italian. It is also known as "mineral spirits". "Naptha" is a faster drying and more volatile solvent. The naptha I buy is Coleman stove fuel. It's sort of in between mineral spirits and gasoline in drying speed. Lighter fluid (like for a Zippo lighter) also is naptha.

You don't absolutely have to clean off the bass to apply just the wax, but you must if you apply polyurethane. But, it makes sense to get it nice and clean before putting on a fresh coat of wax. It looks so much better when you do.

Without having your bass right in front of me I don't want to give you advice on filling the dent. Fine scratches can be covered up after you clean the bass with a coloured wax that matches the wood. It will be less noticeable at least. Some people use coloured shoe polish which is a coloured wax.

When you buy wax for the bass, buy furniture paste wax. Don't buy paste wax made for floors. It dries way too hard to polish out easily by hand. Don't use any of those wax products in bottles that are inliquid form. Most of them contain silicone. You don't want to get any silicone on your bass. Others polishes like that are useless for getting a long lasting wax shine. There are also various waxes, cleaners and polishes you can get in music stores. Don't use them. They're a waste of money.

[alexlotta]

Interesting And very Useful.
I've asked many times here around,but i've never got so many infos about. More than what i've hoped for.

So i will take the wax finish in the way you adviced,and will switch to The poly(poly + oil if possible,as i like the omogeneous color it has ) ,when i will get a resonable price range for ithat work(don gonna do myself).

Well Its great to get some help like That,
Really much appreciated,hope to be Helpful to You someday too,
Alex

[62bass]

Wise decision. Someone who knows what he's doing and has done it before will get that bass looking better than ever. He'll also know where to find the right materials locally. It can be done by someone who hasn't done much of it, but there is too much danger of ruining the finish that's already on there, and that's too beautiful a bass to take chances like that. And it is a fair bit of work too. Not a quick and easy job.