Zero Fret or Nut

[bbehrens]

I like the idea of the zero fret (regardless of it's image as lowere quality) but I also think that a decent nut should be fine (especially if it fits the size fret wire used).

But what constitutes a good nut?

Phenolic? Graphite? Bone? Plastic?

I don't even know what difference these make.

Please enlighten me.

- bsb

[Dirk Diggler]

I don't know where the notion of a zero fret being lesser quality comes from, I find that puzzling. It will actually give you a better tone from open string to fretted note. I can't see that being a bad thing.
Nuts can be almost anything and you left out brass, which to me really acts like a zero fret. Oh yeah some people use Delrin or Corian too. I actually have a bass that has a Birsdeye Maple nut, it actually sounds quite good.
Dirk

[DSB1]

I'll come out and say it, zero frets are over rated. So is nut material. I usually use graphite nuts because they are easy to file quickly and look good with most of my stuff. I think zero frets are a good idea for a beginer making his or her first fretted bass since they dont have to worry about getting the fret slots correct.

[bbehrens]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

I don't know where the notion of a zero fret being lesser quality comes from, I find that puzzling.

I have heard that it just comes from history. Lower end guitars were often made with a zero fret which gave the zero fret a reputation for being lower quality.

Actually, a brass zero fret sounds like it would wear down a little faster than a standard fret wire zero fret.

Does brass give you something more/different.

BTW, I like the look of a birds-eye maple neck with a AAAAA Quilt Maple top - they go nice together.

- bsb

[bbehrens]

Just kidding about the "Nut"s thing!

Originally Posted by DSB1

I'll come out and say it, zero frets are over rated. So is nut material.

But ya gotta have a nut (or zero fret anyway) so I guess a black graphite nut is your choice?

- bsb

[Musiclogic]

Nut or Zero fret, in the hands of a competent builder, it won't make a difference except for the open note sound, which the difference can be completely negligable depending on the composition of the nut.

[wilser]

Originally Posted by DSB1

I'll come out and say it, zero frets are over rated. So is nut material. I usually use graphite nuts because they are easy to file quickly and look good with most of my stuff. I think zero frets are a good idea for a beginer making his or her first fretted bass since they dont have to worry about getting the fret slots correct.

so, according to you, what are the drawbacks? IMO NUTS are overrated, they force you to use only one string gauge and if you choose to change that, you'll have to take your bass to a repair person (the player, I mean). There is no practical reason to use a nut.

[DSB1]

Originally Posted by wilser

so, according to you, what are the drawbacks?

To be honest, I feel the biggest drawback of a zero nut is it does not look good, which is obviously a matter of taste. I'll probably get some heat for this but I think they're gimmicky.

Originally Posted by wilser

IMO NUTS are overrated, they force you to use only one string gauge and if you choose to change that, you'll have to take your bass to a repair person (the player, I mean). There is no practical reason to use a nut.

Why would you not have to do the same on the nut of a bass with a zero nut? The nut still dictates the width of the strings, only it does not control height, the zero fret does.

[wilser]

Originally Posted by DSB1

...
Why would you not have to do the same on the nut of a bass with a zero nut? The nut still dictates the width of the strings, only it does not control height, the zero fret does.

You can make the groove on the nut V shaped, that will accomodate any string gauge and not have to worry about action or width.

2 of the basses I currently have in progress will have no nuts. I'll use the end of the fingerboard to guide the strings. THAT'S IT! NUTS OFF!

[The Penguin]

Originally Posted by wilser

IMO NUTS are overrated, they force you to use only one string gauge and if you choose to change that, you'll have to take your bass to a repair person (the player, I mean). There is no practical reason to use a nut.

If a builder made a nut that could only take one gauge of string I would return the bass and find a better luthier. I prefer zero frets myself but I can cut a nut that will work with a wide range of gauges with no problem.

[bbehrens]

Wouldn't the strings on a fanned fret guitar or bass tend to roll a bit if you used a zero nut on a fanned fret neck?

Odd combination but just a thought.

- bsb

[wilser]

Originally Posted by The Penguin

If a builder made a nut that could only take one gauge of string I would return the bass and find a better luthier. I prefer zero frets myself but I can cut a nut that will work with a wide range of gauges with no problem.

while I'm not trying to get into an argument, the point is that most builders and production facilities pay little attention to the nut. Even on my zero fret basses I ensure the nut is as flawless as possible. I also make my non-zero fret nuts to fit different gauges, I do this by using a low profile nut blank and cutting shallow grooves instead of the buried string usually found on production nuts. Those buried string nuts will limit your choice of string gauges if you don't modify them. Of course, you could live with the tuning problems not taking care of that brings.

[The Penguin]

So then nuts do not force you to only use one gauge, Just crappy nuts.

Even a "buried string" nut will handle different gauges especially if you notch the bottom of the slot and don't cut it to be snug on the sides, which is wrong in the first place.

[DSB1]

Originally Posted by wilser

You can make the groove on the nut V shaped, that will accomodate any string gauge and not have to worry about action or width.

2 of the basses I currently have in progress will have no nuts. I'll use the end of the fingerboard to guide the strings. THAT'S IT! NUTS OFF!

Point taken. Congradulations on your nuts.

[T2W]

Thats a lot of talk about Nuts.... I dont like nuts either

[WarriorJoe7]

I like zero frets better than nuts for technique. If you have enough space between the zero fret and pseudo-nut then you van slide up from an open string easier (if you even do slides... like me.)

Also you can replace the pseudo nut (with different widths, or strung backwards and not have to worry about anything except that the nut keeps the spacing in order.)

I like zero frets much better. Nuts are overrated. Zero frets are underrated. Just my humble opinion though. If I ever have a custom built from scratch it will have a zero fret with a 1/2 inch gap between it and the nut.

Joe

[bbehrens]

Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7

If I ever have a custom built from scratch it will have a zero fret with a 1/2 inch gap between it and the nut.

Joe

Any particular reason for this spacing?

- bsb

[WarriorJoe7]

Originally Posted by bbehrens

Any particular reason for this spacing?

- bsb

well it doesn't have to be quite 1/2 inch but I have a read custom that has less than a quarter inch space and I can BARELY slide up from the zero fret. I just want enough space for my finger to sit behind the zero fret

[bppubjr]

It just occurred to me that with an angled headstock and a straight string pull-through to the tuners you might not need any nut at all (including grooves in the edge of the fingerboard, etc.). Has anyone tried this?

[The Penguin]

Originally Posted by bppubjr

It just occurred to me that with an angled headstock and a straight string pull-through to the tuners you might not need any nut at all (including grooves in the edge of the fingerboard, etc.). Has anyone tried this?

I could see that working. Different amounts of string winding on the tuner post might screw things up though.