european conservatories?

[cryfok]

can someone please recommend some good places to study (classical) bass in europe?

thanks much

[ADissen]

at the end of this thread i started we get into some of the best European schools, hope it helps

Undergrad And Graduate School Ideas

and then there is http://www.musicalchairs.info/Conser...%20English.htm which is good to narrow down your list and ask about specific schools.

all the best
andrew

[cryfok]

this is perfect and exactly the directory i was looking for. many, many thanks. jh

[cryfok]

ps, if anyone has a personal preference of one of these schools for bass study in particular - or a horror story for that matter, i would be very grateful for the information.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by cryfok

ps, if anyone has a personal preference of one of these schools for bass study in particular - or a horror story for that matter, i would be very grateful for the information.

This is a quote from a post I wrote earlier:

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

Well, Germany is pretty hard to beat. Practically no tuition (maybe a 200 Euro a year fee), you would learn a foreign language if you don't hang out with English speaking foreign students, incredible musical tradition etc...

There can be a few stumbling blocks, like having to audition live (you can usually borrow an instrument from the school), having to take some German before hand, having to translate your transcripts etc....but when you take into account the financial savings and the professional benefits it all becomes worthwhile. Certain things won't be easy, especially when dealing with German bureaucracy, but you have to look at things with an open mind because everything will be different, from the way you buy groceries to the way you behave in society. But all this, along with the foreign language, will give you culture and will be worth more than the piece of paper you will get when you graduate. You will be ahead of many people.

Weimar used to accept a video audition as a preliminary audition, and they used to not require German language proficiency for admissions. Mr Wenkel is about to retire which is too bad, but I am sure they will get an incredible person to take over, because the bass studio has always been one of the strongest in Germany. They have cheap dorms (I mean CHEAP), subsidized cafeteria, cheap beer (I mean CHEAP) and not just any beer but some of the best in the world. And the town is a jewel in architecture and culture.

They have a website in English too:

http://www.hfm-weimar.de/index.php?lang=en

Tell your parents that there isn't much difference between flying from NYC to LA or to Frankfurt, and be sure to mention the savings.

This is a quote from their website: " There are no general tuition fees required by The LISZT SCHOOL of Music Weimar for undergraduate studies"
another interesting quote: "Starting on 1 October 2008, a tuition fee of 500 Euros per semester will be required for graduate studies which do not directly follow an undergraduate degree" which basically means that if you choose to continue after your undergrad, you still won't pay any tuition.

[Stan Haskins]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a good bass teacher who would accept an "older" student with full-time obligations (family, job, etc . . .) in Berlin? Preferably a good orchestra player . . . affiliation with a conservatory is not necessary . . . thanks!

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Stan Haskins

Does anyone have any recommendations for a good bass teacher who would accept an "older" student with full-time obligations (family, job, etc . . .) in Berlin? Preferably a good orchestra player . . . affiliation with a conservatory is not necessary . . . thanks!

what level?

[Stan Haskins]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

what level?

Depends who I'm talking to

Compared to your average Pro orchestra player/conservatory graduate, I guess I'd be considered an intermediate level player. Currently play at a semi-pro level at best. Certainly not a beginner, but also not nearly in the running for full-time orchestra work.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Stan Haskins

Depends who I'm talking to

Compared to your average Pro orchestra player/conservatory graduate, I guess I'd be considered an intermediate level player. Currently play at a semi-pro level at best. Certainly not a beginner, but also not nearly in the running for full-time orchestra work.

then perhaps Rainer Zepperitz, former principal of the Berlin Phil. I am PMing you his phone number.

he may or may not have time, he retired a few years ago, but he is a gracious man and he will steer you in the right direction if he can't personally help, I would call before heading to europe, he works in spain quite a bit.

good luck

[cryfok]

after a fairly comprehensive search, and with a lot of help from you guys, here is what i've narrowed down the "great schools for bass" in europe to be. as i think i mentioned, i was also looking for schools that have a pretty high degree of renown, as the ultimate goal here is to play orchestrally for a living (stateside or otherwise).

here is the list:

Conservatories
• Italy
o Milan Conservatory
• Holland
o Amsterdam Hogeschool voor de kunsten
o Conservatorium du Amsterdam (Aged out)
o Den Haag?
• Germany
o HFM Berlin
o Berlin Academy of Music
o Musikhochschule Stuttgart
Liszt School, Weimar
o Munich Philharmonic Academy
o Karajan Academy-Berliner Philharmoniker
o Rostock
• Vienna
o Vienna Conservatory
• Switzerland
o Orchester-Akademie der Oper Zürich

• Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark
o Sibelius?
o Grieg Academy?
o Oslo?
o Stockholm?
o Malmo?
• France
o CNSM de Paris

now, to make matters a bit more complicated (or, hopefully, this doesn't complicate things too much): i am an older student, 34 years of age. i am a decent player, but i want to devote myself to studying the instrument full-time so that i can improve to the degree that i can pull out a successful audition.

all things considered (my goals, my age), if anyone has feedback on the above list, i'd be very grateful. any major omissions? anything on the list look terrible? any general advice?

thanks very much,
j

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by cryfok

all things considered (my goals, my age), if anyone has feedback on the above list, i'd be very grateful. any major omissions? anything on the list look terrible? any general advice?

Well, you should keep in mind that in Germany and other European countries, they will not invite you or hire you if you are above 35 years old.

You should also find out about the immigration policies in relation to your own nationality. Working and gigging are not easy in some countries, Germany is one of the easiest.

You want to avoid schools with a very regional style of playing, unless you plan on getting a job in that very region.

Some examples of the complications you could run into would be:

-you study in Germany, but can't get a job there because of your age, you try to audition in Britain but you have studied in a German conservatory which would mean that you would probably be rusty with orchestral tuning, orchestral sound, and excerpts.

-you study in France, but because of the tight immigration policies you can't apply for jobs there. Can't apply in Germany and Austria because of age and bow grip etc....

[cryfok]

did i say i was 34? i meant 24.

[Muusers]

Originally Posted by cryfok

after a fairly comprehensive search, and with a lot of help from you guys, here is what i've narrowed down the "great schools for bass" in europe to be. as i think i mentioned, i was also looking for schools that have a pretty high degree of renown, as the ultimate goal here is to play orchestrally for a living (stateside or otherwise).

here is the list:

Conservatories
• Italy
o Milan Conservatory
• Holland
o Amsterdam Hogeschool voor de kunsten
o Conservatorium van Amsterdam (Aged out)
o Den Haag?
• Germany
o HFM Berlin
o Berlin Academy of Music
o Musikhochschule Stuttgart
Liszt School, Weimar
o Munich Philharmonic Academy
o Karajan Academy-Berliner Philharmoniker
o Rostock
• Vienna
o Vienna Conservatory
• Switzerland
o Orchester-Akademie der Oper Zürich

• Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark
o Sibelius?
o Grieg Academy?
o Oslo?
o Stockholm?
o Malmo?
• France
o CNSM de Paris

Conservatorium van Amsterdam and Amsterdam Hogeschool voor de Kunsten are the same Conservatory And what do you mean with aged out?

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by cryfok

did i say i was 34? i meant 24.

Then you are in business, as far as age goes.



.

[cryfok]

Originally Posted by Muusers

Conservatorium van Amsterdam and Amsterdam Hogeschool voor de Kunsten are the same Conservatory And what do you mean with aged out?

Sorry Muusers... I was cutting and pasting from a couple of different lists I'd been maintaining, thus the duplication.

[Anon2962]

Originally Posted by cryfok

o Sibelius?
... if anyone has feedback on the above list, i'd be very grateful..

i had an amazing time in the Sibelius academy, excellent teaching and an extremely high standard of playing. Just my €0.02

[mrmann]

Yes, if you can get into Sibelius, that's one mighty fine school. I have some knowledge of the Scandinavian schools. I've been two years in Gothenburg, of which I have only good things to say. That is, there is always issues, as with any school, but the bass part is awesome, with a wonderful teacher and person in Jan Alm. You will probably be able to play a lot of orchestra if you want, as there is also a master programme in orchestral playing, which never has any bass players. If you're good, there is some possibility of getting jobs. Jan plays German bow, is very thorough and leaves nothing to chance.
In Stockholm the situation at the bass department has been quite chaotic lately. Traditionally the principals in both the Philharmonic (Håkan Ehrén) and the Royal Opera (Michael Carlsson) have shared the students among themselves. Both are fantastic persons and players, Ehrén being a true virtuoso, and as such perhaps not as thorough - but he can show you how to really PLAY, and if you can keep up, you're set for life. Carlsson here represents the more traditional hard working perspective, in the very best sense. Problem is that neither is very certain that they will still teach next year, otherwise I would've applied myself. City is more expensive than Gothenburg, and bigger. Malmö has gathered a decent number of bass players over the last few years due to a teacher called Olle Davidsson, I think, who I have yet to hear a bad word about. About the size of Gothenburg, and close to Denmark and Copenhagen.
Oslo is probably the most expensive city to live in, in the world. Seriously. I have also heard both good and bad criticism of the teacher. It seems highly unlikely that a major city such as Oslo would have someone who isn't good, so I think it's mostly a concern of personal relations. Myself, I am on an exchange year in Tromsö, where I study for Knut Erik Sundquist. He is also, like Ehrén, a world class virtuoso. He holds the solo seat in the Mahler Chamber Orchestra and has lots of solo gigs, AND, is totally fab as a person. The only Swedish/Norwegian bass players of his calibre is the mentioned Ehrén and Svante Henrysson - the guy who was solo in Olso when he was 19 but left in order to play BG with Yngwie Malmsteen). Here, you get fjords, a cosy school, nice climate, tons and tons of time for practice, and as cheap living as you can get in Norway. The downside is that the quality of the other students is a bit so-so, the bass class currently being an exception (there's only one local out of us five, by the way, the rest are from places like Shanghai, Honduras and Guatemala) which doesn't necessarily affect you practising, but sometimes you would want the school orchestra to sound at least half decent, or you'd want to play some more challenging chamber music than the Rossini duet with whoever is currently the best cello player.

Also keep in mind that the Nordic languages are full of irregularities and can be tricky to learn. If you want an easy ride, language-wise, then perhaps not.

So:
Sibelius: Hell yeah! REALLY weird language, though.
Gothenburg and Malmö: Good choices that will make the best of you
Stockholm: Yes, if you know for certain that you will study for either of the mentors mentioned
Oslo: Perhaps not
Tromsö: If you think it suits you.

I myself am thinking about a year or two at either UdK Berlin, for Wolf, or HMT Zürich for McTier. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a good recording this year so I fear it'll have to wait until it's time for a master. The risk is, as some have pointed out, that you will get a teacher overly obsessed about a certain tradition. This I've heard about for instance Vienna and Paris. Post-WW nationalism shouldn't decide how you should play. That beng said, you can probably become an excellent player there, but my gut feeling tells my to look someplace else. I also know that in Italy, for instance, there is a lot of that "do re mi" stuff. I cannot cope with that; I was intruduced to it way too late to be in any way proficient. It has its uses, but I've heard that the education in the theoretical department depends so much on it that it only makes you feel bad. Italy seems nice otherwise, though - but I believe you have to play French bow. As is the case with France, obviously. And England, I believe, although there seems to be a rising interest in German bowing there these days. Don't think any of the major professor are German bowers, though.

Anyways, you could add to that list the likes of Genua and Madrid. Basically, if there's any major city you'd like to live in, you can be quite sure that there will also be a professor of some posture there. With a smaller city, such as Tromsö, you have to be more careful, and try to get in touch with the students there, but someplace like that doesn't seem very likely for you.

[cryfok]

This is seriously amazing information and advice, guys. Thank you so much. FYI, my response to Dr. Rod was meant as a bit of a joke that I think may have been taken at face value. Sorry man; I truly meant it to be funny. I am, in fact, 34. A very young-looking 34-year-old, an able-bodied 34-year-old, but, still and all, a 34-year-old. I had been hoping - and my spidey-sense tells me this may yet be true to some degree - that it's the chops, the music that matters most. Then again, I'm not interested in pinning my hopes on a star.

You guys seem to be extremely knowledgeable about the subject, and I'm grateful for your continued time discussing this post. I'm trying to dig up as much information as possible right now, because I'm (still) seriously passionate about pursuing this objective. Following the last few entries in this thread, I've been reaching out to a variety of the schools we've discussed and plainly asking them the same question - whether or not upon graduation (provided I really have the goods and that I play in the style the orchestra requires) there'd be an equal opportunity at getting a decent, steady section job in an orchestra abroad.

Any ongoing advice here would be tremendously appreciated. I realize the topic has changed somewhat, but I do hope the moderators and other readers feel this still germane to the topic of orchestral auditions.

Thanks again guys.

Best,
JH

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by cryfok

FYI, my response to Dr. Rod was meant as a bit of a joke that I think may have been taken at face value. Sorry man; I truly meant it to be funny.

Thanks for your kind clarification, but please don't worry about it.

[BassMomof2]

Hi. Well, I would just hope to tap into some of this knowledge and perhaps one knows if any of these fine conservatories have summer programs of study???

Or, as a second less favorable option, is it possible to make contact with one of the teachers, and just take a series of lessons over a few weeks in the summer?

Many thanks in advance for your response,
Joy