I ****ing quit!

[masterofbass]

Stupid people keep getting jobs. The audition circut is as dirty as William "refridgerator" Perry's under-pants from last week. What a complete waste of time. Every dream and aspiration that I've had means nothing to me now. All these people that get these jobs have connections not ability. I don't want somebody sitting next to me because they took lessons from some great player. I want to sit next to a great player, damn it!!! **** this stupid ****!!!!!!! I ****ing Quit!

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The subject of "Audition Politics" could be a great topic for a thread, if anyone was interested in discussing it. Blowing off steam is fine too, as long as it is kept relatively clean and accomplished with the forum rules in mind.

My first wife was a violinist who tried the audition circuit for a brief while and found it equally frustrating. The "withering away" of the "legit" scene makes the competition all that much more fierce for those few jobs which do still exist. Still, most of her auditions were screened or "blind" auditions, the purpose of which was supposed to be to avoid favoritism. Do I take it that system isn't working?

[anonymous0726]

Welcome to life, baby. It's dirty and unfair, and that's the way it goes. You just have to hang in there and be persistent. At some point you'll have to upper hand because of connections and someone else will be bitching.

[Sam Sherry]

Geez, Ray, now I'm all disillusioned. You mean that you need connections for jazz gigs? I always thought that people got bigger jazz gigs by becoming better bass-players.

At least there are auditions for orchestras. It may be a mixed blessing, but counter yer blessings nevertheless!

[Dave Irwin]

I don't think you can be surprised at politics in classical music and(more and more in jazz)

After all, we're all learning to play this stuff in college music schools, he most bitterly political places I've ever seen.


Dave




"An honest man will always have enemies. A dishonest man will always have friends. A man who has only friends and no enemies knows who to lie to and who to be honest with."

[jazzbo]

Just goes to show the importance of networking. It sounds like you're behind in that game, but it certainly isn't too late to start.

[nicklloyd]

Masterbass-
Yep.
Uh-huh.
Sure...
Don't let 'em get you down, man. The Audition world is very frustrating, obviously. Politics are an intellectual nightmare, and letting them get under your skin is disasterous. They exist in ALL trades, but my best defense yet is flat-water kayaking. Keep your chin up, and always wear a life-vest.

[kpo]

Originally posted by masterofbass
Stupid people keep getting jobs. The audition circut is as dirty as William "refridgerator" Perry's under-pants from last week. What a complete waste of time. Every dream and aspiration that I've had means nothing to me now. All these people that get these jobs have connections not ability. I don't want somebody sitting next to me because they took lessons from some great player.

Take heart! The latest bass auditions in Louisville, San Antonio, Portland, Buffalo, Alabama, Kansas City, Denver, Seattle, Columbus and Baltimore were won by players who didn't "know" anyone, they just showed up for the audition.
Here in Louisville, they had seen me before, as a finalist in their 1999 audition, but I'd never taken any "lessons" or done any phony "networking".
It's possible.

[Pete G]

At the critical point in my life when I had to decide whether to go to a conservatory and pursue a career in music performance or go into the "real world," I chose the latter. Now I play bass for fun, and as a release from other life stresses. It was the right decision for me; I wasn't good enough at music to make it professionally.

I have done fairly well professionally in the real world, and let me tell you that every aspect of politics that you see in music is also present in business, academia, and the learned professions, especially the closer you get to the top of the pyramid.

In big-time orchestras, ALL jobs are close to the top of the pyramid. (Think of all the amateur players, students, and struggling pros who could never even make the entry-level round of auditions).

That means that, realistically, politics often will have some impact on the outcome of the selection process, though it won't always be decisive. It's a fact of life. If you can't accept it, getting out of the game may be the best thing. However, don't expect that you won't run into similar phenomena in whatever other field you may choose to enter instead.

[godoze]

I remember audiitions in Baltimore back in the 80's. It was so strict that people were told not to wear perfume/ cologne or certain shoes that the jury might associate with certain players.

Every audition I have done has been behind the veil.

[Shlomobaruch]

Originally posted by kpo


Even the second-to-last Cleveland audition was won by someone the committee didn't know, which is SUPER RARE for Cleveland.
I'ts possible, keep at it.

Are you referring to the Principal audition that Dimoff won? Or have there been more since then? That was rather odd, even stranger for the fact that Dimoff had not previously held a principal position.

Personally, I think politics *did* play a part in a reverse sort of way. Dohnayni seemed determined to *not* give the position to Scott Haigh, despite his serving as an acting co-principal for years while the Orchestra held auditions and lost at least one winner due to contract (mis) negotiations. Now that Cleveland has a principal, Dohnayni has since left... Haigh must be loving fate right about now. Then again, he's the no. 2 man in one of the greatest orchestras in the world and one of the most sought after teachers in the country, so he can't feel too sorry for himself.

[kpo]

Originally posted by Shlomobaruch
Are you referring to the Principal audition that Dimoff won? Or have there been more since then? That was rather odd, even stranger for the fact that Dimoff had not previously held a principal position.

They've had two auditions since then. The first one they hired a guy Mr Dimoff said he didn't know; someone who had to send in a tape. Their runner-up for that same audition also had to send in a tape, but wasn't accepted. His teacher had to call and ask that he be heard!!! then they picked that guy as runner-up, over all the other invitees!!!! **wow**.

Cleveland has a looong history of what looks like Nepotism, but, at least in recent Bass auditions, thing have been going better. I was fortunate enough to meet Mr Dimoff, and he seems like an honest and very forthright guy, so that's awesome.

Most big orchestras these days have a wide-open "cattle-call" letting *most* applicants come and try out. The only way to be sure you're hearing the best folks from everywhere, not just the folks who "know people". Having a "cassette-tape 1st round" clearly leaves capable and relevant players out-of-the-loop... though I can imagine dreading listening to three days of bass players....

[Shlomobaruch]

You're right! I'm stupid. I forgot that when my teacher (Harry Barnoff) retired they'd have to audition someone for the missing spot! But that is interesting. As far as politics go, I can somehow imagine Larry Angell being very much into that. I feel bad because I never met the guy, but I've never heard a good thing about him, and he did lose the Principal chair in Cleveland by taking the Mahler 1 solo at half tempo. I'm glad Dimoff seems so straightforward and less... goofy.

But aside from politics in the bass community, Barnoff told me about the rounds of auditions they had for Principal, which he heard, and there were players that the bassists thought were wonderful, but Dohnayni didn't like their sound and refused them. He was rather frustrated, because auditions take time and money, and they had wasted two entire rounds at that point, and if the conductor and the section couldn't agree on what they were looking for, they were only going to be wasting more time and money.

[Leco]

worse is when there is someone less experinced than you that got the spot without an audition.
Welcome to life

[kpo]

Originally posted by Leco
worse is when there is someone less experinced than you that got the spot without an audition.
Welcome to life

Where in the world could someone get an orchestra job without an audition?
Two or three ICSOM orchestras look crazy-hard to get into, but they still have to hold an audition....

[paulunger]

For what it is worth. While I was studying my teacher made the point that I would probably take anywhere from 15 - 20 auditions before I won a major orchestra job. (I'm happy to say it didn't take qiute that long). But what we wanted me to understand was that it would take years of commited practice time and money.
My experience has shown me that it usually takes a person a few years of auditioning before they make it past the first round of an audition. Then they work on making it past the second round to the finals. Usually, it is the same 5 - 10 people that make the finals in every audition. (of course, someone wins and then a new person joins that group). Occasionally there is the phenom college student who appears out of nowhere and steals the show.But for most of us it boils down to sticking it out for the long haul and realizing from the begining that it will take a few years before you win.

[kpo]

Originally posted by paulunger
For what it is worth. While I was studying my teacher made the point that I would probably take anywhere from 15 - 20 auditions before I won a major orchestra job.... he wanted me to understand was that it would take years of commited practice time and money.

Take note, "masterofbass", whoever started this thread;
It is this very reasoning, voiced by paulunger, that separates winners from quitters.

[masterofbass]

KPO, You sounded really good when you were singing the sight reading piece from memory at the Louisville audition.

No connections my big fat fanny. I heard you were staying at one of the bass players houses while you were at the audition.

[kpo]

What in the WORLD are you talking about - sour grapes? Were you there?

Give your Big Fat Fanny a rest. I stayed at Motel 6. Where did you stay? Home?!?!?!?

If you want to quit and , go ahead, I know I won't have to consider meeting you at any future auditions.

If, on the other hand, you choose to Get With The Program and keep auditioning... I'll see you at Boston, New York, Indianapolis, Grant Park and San Fransisco, the five auditions coming in the next three months, as of 2/21/03....

[masterofbass]

Don't worry I'll get with the program.