Undergrad And Graduate School Ideas

[ADissen]

Okay so.... been doing my research on colleges 24/7 even though im only a sophomore and think i've came up with an pretty good plan. I need to see what everybody thinks.
My new college plan =
Undergrad
i would go to a state school (maryland university) and major in something that is always in demand and that i am interested in. So that right after college i will have a steady income. While doing this, i would minor in music performance, practice like crazy and study with some of the top teachers in my area. Graduate, make some money and keep studying without 200,000 dollars of debt from majoring in music as an undergrad at a major conservatory and no ability to have a steady income Then.......
Graduate School
Go to a bass program at Boston University or New England or Peabody and pursue a career as a music professional.

Please let me know what you think

and sorry if you think this is the wrong forum for this... i dunno

This whole plan is based around not getting a good amount of scholarships or grants to go to a music school as an undergrad because well... i need to be prepared for everything

[Eli_Upright12]

I think you underestimate the amount of work college is, I dont know that if you dont major you would have enough time to practice. Why not just practice hard now and win a nice scholarship? another thing is major professors might not want to just take on an extra student (who might seem not commited, or not enough to major).

[thedbassist]

Originally Posted by ADissen

Okay so.... been doing my research on colleges 24/7 even though im only a sophomore and think i've came up with an ingenious plan. I need to see what everybody thinks.
My new college plan =
Undergrad
i would go to a state school (maryland university) and major in something that is always in demand and that i am interested in. So that right after college i will have a steady income. While doing this, i would minor in music performance, practice like crazy and study with some of the top teachers in my area ( some teaching at major conservatories like Peabody). Graduate, make some money and keep studying Without 200,000 dollars of debt from majoring in music as an undergrad at a major conservatory and no ability to have a steady income Then.......
Graduate School
Go to a major music school like Boston University or New England or Peabody and pursue my dream as a music professional.

Please let me know what you think

and sorry if you think this is the wrong forum for this... i dunno

Well, the University of Maryland has a great bass teacher(Bob Oppelt, principal of the National Symphony) and conductor that I know of so you wouldn't be that bad off if you went there(especially if you're a German bow player) so you might want to think about Music Education if you want a degree where you can get a steady income and job demand.

I take it you're close by the University of Maryland since you mentioned it as a state school so you might want to get in touch with Bob if you can. Also, you might be overestimating the cost of college, especially if you have chops which usually equals scholarships up to an amount where you can actually get paid to go to college if the circumstances are right. Btw, Peabody is a conservatory but doesn't have the reputation for sending out job winners like Philadelphia, Rice, Boston or Curtis.

P.S. please fill out your background.

[ADissen]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

I think you underestimate the amount of work college is, I dont know that if you dont major you would have enough time to practice. Why not just practice hard now and win a nice scholarship? another thing is major professors might not want to just take on an extra student (who might seem not commited, or not enough to major).

im putting in a lot of practice time now. I am sure i would get into an at least semi better than mediocre bass program somewhere with some sort of scholarship (if i wasnt sure i wouldnt be practicing enough) and would work my rear end off there. But the figures of debt that ive read about are so overwhelming and daunting.
i am getting this info on debt from many an article on Jason Heaths bass blog
most notably
http://doublebassblog.org/2008/06/to...-avoid-it.html

and my plan is basically covered there: so it was originally his plan i figure

[thedbassist]

If you're worried about the daunting debt, I would recommend going to Indiana. They're a state school(granted, you'll have to pay out of state tuition for the first year) and have a world-class music program. Also, if you're thinking about Indiana you should attend Interlochen because Larry Hurst teaches there. It would be wise to make connections imo, plus it's a great place for high schoolers.

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by thedbassist

They're a state school(granted, you'll have to pay out of state tuition for the first year)

I'm pretty sure you would have to live in state a year without going to school to get in state tuition.

Even if you are paying out of state tuition universities like Indiana are going to be cheaper than going to a conservatory.

[PBass101]

You are underestimating so many factors here that you need to spend some more time thinking over.

Number one, four years in an undergrad study doing something you're not really passionate about = no fun at all. I can tell you this from experience, believe me. Do you really want to commit the next four years of your life working towards a degree and what will at least be a short-term career that you may or may not find any personal satisfaction in? You really need to re-think this part.

Because think of it - if the post-grad bass studies fall through, and you somehow get stuck doing whatever your undergrad has equipped you to be able to do, you better be damn sure it's something you're going to be happy with.

If you want to be the college-trained pro-musician, you need to start right away and not rely on backup plans or second thoughts to save you if things don't work out.

If I were considering a plan like this, here's what I'd do: attend a junior college and finish off your general education requirements. Every school in the country will require you complete an introductory level of math, science and english courses. Find a JuCo that is transferable to the music colleges of your choices and spend a year and a half to two years working those gen ed's off, while contuing to practice and get a job to save money for music school.

After JuCo, your gen ed's are out of the way, I'd look for undergrad music programs. They don't have to be uber-expensive conservatory programs. Find something affordable, like a state-school's music program, work your tail to the bone, get the grades, graduate and then move onto post-grad music studies.

[ADissen]

i would rather be stuck having a real job if my career as a professional musician falls through cause i sure as hell wouldnt be happy working at starbucks while i try to convince myself that i made the right move.

This whole plan is based around not getting a good amount of scholarships to BU or Indiana or Eastman or Carnegie Melon or Curtis or wherever. When i do get around to auditioning and applying for college, schools like these would be my first choice so i can hit the ground running on my career. but i would also apply to Towson U. or MDU just in case i dont get the help i think would be needed to attend these "first choice" schools as an undergrad performance major without having tons of debt right of the bat.

[jgbass]

Have you considered getting some kind of training in a career that does not require a four-year degree? Just because you get an undergraduate degree in something, it does not mean a job is waiting for you. At community colleges they have one or two year programs in practical skills like computer programming, electrician, you get the idea, etc. There are even ROP programs. These shorter-term programs are designed to get you out working ASAP.

I just would not spend four years lingering and working towards a degree that inspires no passion. Degree does not necessarily = job. And there is no clear relationship between the years of schooling one has and how much one makes.

An undergrad performance degree, if you do it right and work your tail off, as you should, it is full-time commitment. There's little point doing performance if you cannot work to be more than good, and have your energies divided with other paths. It dos not work. You will be busy seven days a week.

I think you are very wise to consider having a backup plan. I am getting a second BA in music and it really helps to know I can always go back to my former career, if need be.

I feel bad for so many musicians who went through these performance programs, and are good musicians, but have these crappy jobs that they have no interest in, and pay very little and they are saddled with debt

So maybe you can do some time at a community college, and do some music classes as well. Its also good to get those general ed requirements out of the way, so when you do get to that university performance program, you can focus 100% on music and will have training in a back up job. They are less expensive as well.

[sibass89]

I'm just going to chime in here for a second. For most people, not majoring in Music Performance is not ideal for a couple of reasons. For the most part, students that are just entering college seem to not have the dedication needed to win an orchestral job or become a musician without total emersion into a music program can hinder some people's studies. However, there are many successful and talented musicians who did not study music. If you have a passion in both music and a different subject, then pursue it because you are absolutely right. It is a smart and reasonable decision to be qualified for another career if music doesn't work out but also because you do not want to find yourself in a situation 6 or 7 years after college regretting not pursuing your other passions as well. Not every successful musician studies music in their undergrad. Ali Yanzdafar is one bass player who comes to mind as well as Meredith Johnson (principal of Winnipeg), not to mention musicians such as Yo-Yo Ma, William Christie, Joshua Redman, and Emanuel Ax. I can guarantee this much. If you want to study something else and want to be a musician you can and will succeed. Many people are skeptical about this but I have friends at IU that major in academic subjects and study with the teachers there as well as here at CCM. If you are dedicated, you can do it and the teachers will teach you. Good luck with all of this. And as somebody who has a lot of debt, being debt free will take a lot of stress away from pursuing a music career.

[thedbassist]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

I'm pretty sure you would have to live in state a year without going to school to get in state tuition.

Even if you are paying out of state tuition universities like Indiana are going to be cheaper than going to a conservatory.

I know that, I thought if you live there for a year during your schooling you can qualify for in-state tuition for your second year though. Was I mistaken?

[Eli_Upright12]

Originally Posted by ADissen

i would rather be stuck having a real job if my career as a professional musician falls through cause i sure as hell wouldnt be happy working at starbucks while i try to convince myself that i made the right move.

If they passion and drive isnt there now it won't ever be. I am saying this as a high school senior who could do very well in a Math or Physics career, but I have faith that I can play music at the highest level. Hardship is part of the experience. You guarantee yourself a job by working hard and trusting yourself. I dont think there is a situation where you go to a good school, practice your tail off, and then end up a starbucks. You at least end up with a degree. There are lots of performance majors working non-symphony music related jobs. Don't feel boxed in by it.

[txstatebass]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

If they passion and drive isnt there now it won't ever be. I am saying this as a high school senior who could do very well in a Math or Physics career, but I have faith that I can play music at the highest level. Hardship is part of the experience. You guarantee yourself a job by working hard and trusting yourself.

Amen!!! Do you want to end up like so many people I meet at gigs saying "I used to play, wish I'd stuck with it...?" If bass is your passion, do it. If it's your hobby, my gig is safe. Good luck!

[Eli_Upright12]

Originally Posted by txstatebass

Amen!!! Do you want to end up like so many people I meet at gigs saying "I used to play, wish I'd stuck with it...?" If bass is your passion, do it. If it's your hobby, my gig is safe. Good luck!

Yeah, the way I see it, if you have the will, you'll find your way. Even if it means living from gig to gig. I have a friend who's an amazing trumpet player and both him and his brother are paying there ways through college by playing on the capitol square.

[txstatebass]

Another thing for the OP to think about is if you get a scholarship, they may be able to waive out of state tuition.


So I'll be graduating this may with a Master's, 40K in debt and trying to get into a DMA program. Worth EVERY penny. They can't repo knowledge and experience.

[professorslinky]

Originally Posted by txstatebass

Do you want to end up like so many people I meet at gigs saying "I used to play, wish I'd stuck with it...?"

Or the other people who say "my car just broke down, I have no money, and I think my wife is cheating on me with a lawyer." Quit the bass while you still have a chance!

[ADissen]

Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12

If they passion and drive isnt there now it won't ever be. I am saying this as a high school senior who could do very well in a Math or Physics career, but I have faith that I can play music at the highest level. Hardship is part of the experience. You guarantee yourself a job by working hard and trusting yourself. I dont think there is a situation where you go to a good school, practice your tail off, and then end up a starbucks. You at least end up with a degree. There are lots of performance majors working non-symphony music related jobs. Don't feel boxed in by it.

I strongly believe that i have the passion to be a great bass player. If i didnt, i would quit while im ahead and pursue something else. But Who doesnt like having a safety net???
i just want to know if its possible

[ADissen]

Originally Posted by professorslinky

Or the other people who say "my car just broke down, I have no money, and I think my wife is cheating on me with a lawyer." Quit the bass while you still have a chance!

Im gonna go ahead and just disregard that. yeah......

[ADissen]

Originally Posted by sibass89

I'm just going to chime in here for a second. For most people, not majoring in Music Performance is not ideal for a couple of reasons. For the most part, students that are just entering college seem to not have the dedication needed to win an orchestral job or become a musician without total emersion into a music program can hinder some people's studies. However, there are many successful and talented musicians who did not study music. If you have a passion in both music and a different subject, then pursue it because you are absolutely right. It is a smart and reasonable decision to be qualified for another career if music doesn't work out but also because you do not want to find yourself in a situation 6 or 7 years after college regretting not pursuing your other passions as well. Not every successful musician studies music in their undergrad. Ali Yanzdafar is one bass player who comes to mind as well as Meredith Johnson (principal of Winnipeg), not to mention musicians such as Yo-Yo Ma, William Christie, Joshua Redman, and Emanuel Ax. I can guarantee this much. If you want to study something else and want to be a musician you can and will succeed. Many people are skeptical about this but I have friends at IU that major in academic subjects and study with the teachers there as well as here at CCM. If you are dedicated, you can do it and the teachers will teach you. Good luck with all of this. And as somebody who has a lot of debt, being debt free will take a lot of stress away from pursuing a music career.

Very Imformative.
Thanks for the insight.

[Dr_Atomic]

+1. Good one.

Edgar was a math major at IU.

Joel Smirnoff, the first-violinist of the Juilliard Quartet, was a history major as an undergraduate.

Bill Buchman, the principal bassoon in the CSO, was a physics major at Brown.

My former teacher in NY was very keen on becoming a doctor before deciding to go full-time into bass.