How many transactions are you allowed before being considered a dealer on here?

[fenderhutz]

I have noticed certain TB'ers are buyers and sellers on here over the past year and do a good bit of deals.

Maybe a questions for the mods, but how many transactions should you be allowed per month before being considered a reseller/dealer on here?

I would think anything over a deal per week should be considered a dealer and required to pay the Bazaar fees.

Storefronts have to do it, why not a personal seller that is acting without a storefront but moving literally tons of gear.

Just trying to make it fair for all of the TB'ers on here, including the virtual storefronts that have to pay.

Seriously.

[Mark Latimour]

Doesn't this belong in Suggestion Box / Forum Questions and not OT?

FWIW I think there is a fundamental difference between an active trader and a dealer. Why are you assuming that someone who is an active trader is a "dealer" (ie doing it for profit) rather than just for the fun in changing basses?

[FL Knifemaker]

IMHO, I doubt anyone is making much of a profit on used basses and gear no matter how much they move. Looking back over the past two years, I've moved quite a bit of gear but any profit was more than consumed by shipping costs, paypal fees, time spent interacting with buyers and packing. Basically I look at it like this............. I paid a lot of money to try a bunch of different basses. There's a big difference between profit and just turning over a buck.

[ehque]

Yeah +1. I think only new gear comes with good profit, if you're a dealer.

[MJ5150]

A dealer is someone with a business license in my mind.

-Mike

[jonathan_matos5]

you have to be in possession of a certain amount of...



oh, not that kind of dealer

[embellisher]

If you are buying and selling gear to make a profit, that makes you a dealer, whether you are one are not. There are some people on here who go through a lot of stuff, because either they like to try new things, or are on a quest for 'the perfect' whatever, but most of those people are not making a profit. If you are buying and selling used stuff, you will make a profit occasionally, but in the end, if you are breaking even, you are doing well IME.

If you are buying new stuff at street and then selling it used, you are losing money every time.

[TheDarkReaver]

Originally Posted by jonathan_matos5

you have to be in possession of a certain amount of...



oh, not that kind of dealer

don't worry, it's all for "personal" use

[FL Knifemaker]

Originally Posted by embellisher

If you are buying and selling gear to make a profit, that makes you a dealer, whether you are one are not.

With all due respect............WHUT??

Wouldn't someone that can buy at wholesale and sell at retail, be considered a dealer? I don't think very many dealers buy basses on eBay and at pawn shops then try to flip them for profit here.

[fenderhutz]

This is my thought process Knifemaker.

Here is a scenario.

Say I travel for business, I go to poor areas of the country and find steals in pawn shops or music stores. We are talking like a Warwick Thumb for 400-500 bucks. Then I religiously come back to talkbass for the purpose of selling the bass for a profit. Sell it for 700-800 bucks.

Second scenario, I work for a mom and pop music store and low ball trade offers to people at the store and throw the basses up here for sale to move them quicker. Then I get a cut from the sales from my employer, the mom and pop.

I would be considered a dealer in my opinion. Especially if I did this 4 or more times a month.

[BillyRay]

Second scenario, I work for a mom and pop music store and low ball trade offers to people at the store and throw the basses up here for sale to move them quicker. Then I get a cut from the sales from my employer, the mom and pop.

In the skiing world, this goes on a lot. There's a guy around here who has connections with race teams and he gets slightly used or new race skis (but also free stuff like old goggles, mittens, coats, etc.) practically for free and he flips them on every bazaar in the region when winter comes.

I know also of a local mom and pop store employee that sells traded gear on eBay and on other forums (not here). I don't think he indicates that he is actually a buisiness without a store front to people he sells stuff to.

[FL Knifemaker]

I see you point but even working an angles like you mentioned, the logistics involved really eat into any serious profit. I look at what I make per hour being self employed. If it takes me an hour and half to pack a bass and bring it to Fedex, I've already lost my shirt on it

[fenderhutz]

But if you are already on travel for another company and buy basses on travel on your off time or work for a mom and pop that has a UPS account and the constant influx of guitars/amps, You are getting cheap shipping and the materials to pack it and spending very little of your own time.

If I do 4 or more transactions per month on here and clear as little as 200 bucks per sale I am making almost $10000 per year on TalkBass. At that point, you are a dealer and should pay the store fees.

$10000 per year for working as little as 6 hours per month packing gear is a decent part time job. That's $133 per hour.

[Rumzini]

As the OP knows Ive been doing a bunch of buying/selling/trading the last few months. I could if i wanted, figure just how much money I have lost on all of these transactions with Paypal fees, shipping, and dropping my original prices. I would hate to think of me as a dealer since I'm not...AND...I have already payed for the privilege of utilizing the For Sale forum with my Supporting Membership.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

This is my thought process Knifemaker.

Here is a scenario.

Say I travel for business, I go to poor areas of the country and find steals in pawn shops or music stores. We are talking like a Warwick Thumb for 400-500 bucks. Then I religiously come back to talkbass for the purpose of selling the bass for a profit. Sell it for 700-800 bucks.

Second scenario, I work for a mom and pop music store and low ball trade offers to people at the store and throw the basses up here for sale to move them quicker. Then I get a cut from the sales from my employer, the mom and pop.

I would be considered a dealer in my opinion. Especially if I did this 4 or more times a month.

Cool, so you think this is happening so often on the FS forums that this is an issue? Seriously, I would be surprised if anyone intentionally sets out on the TB for sale forums to make money. The TB buyers are, IMO, a very shrewd lot when it comes to buying bass gear. You can get a fair market price here, but you will not get a "dealer" mark-up, the buyers are too smart. If you can find "steal" used gear you may be able to flip it here for a profit, but the instances of that happening so frequently that the person becomes a dealer are pretty rare.

To give you an idea, when the $AUD was crap against the $USD, you could make some pretty good cash buy purchasing from TB and re-selling in the Australian market, but you would not have been able to resell to the Aus market in TB because the buyers knew the market.

Is there any particular transactions that you are concerned about?

[embellisher]

Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker

With all due respect............WHUT??

Wouldn't someone that can buy at wholesale and sell at retail, be considered a dealer? I don't think very many dealers buy basses on eBay and at pawn shops then try to flip them for profit here.

See below for my thought processes on this as well.

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

This is my thought process Knifemaker.

Here is a scenario.

Say I travel for business, I go to poor areas of the country and find steals in pawn shops or music stores. We are talking like a Warwick Thumb for 400-500 bucks. Then I religiously come back to talkbass for the purpose of selling the bass for a profit. Sell it for 700-800 bucks.

Second scenario, I work for a mom and pop music store and low ball trade offers to people at the store and throw the basses up here for sale to move them quicker. Then I get a cut from the sales from my employer, the mom and pop.

I would be considered a dealer in my opinion. Especially if I did this 4 or more times a month.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by embellisher

See below for my thought processes on this as well.

As FL Knifemaker pointed out, the first situation is unlikely to actually make any real profit for the user in question as all your money is taken up in your time and effort in acquiring the guitars. In the second example, on anyone's definition that person is a dealer and shouldn't be using the classifieds. That user is already in breach of the rules.

[fenderhutz]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Is there any particular transactions that you are concerned about?

I just don't think anyone including TomBowlus has enough GAS to cycle through 6-7 high dollar tranasactions in a month if they aren't making at a least some profit. Or have that much disposable income either.

No I am not going to point fingers, I only spot trends.

[FL Knifemaker]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

If I do 4 or more transactions per month on here and clear as little as 200 bucks per sale I am making almost $10000 per year on TalkBass. At that point, you are a dealer and should pay the store fees.

$10000 per year for working as little as 6 hours per month packing gear is a decent part time job. That's $133 per hour.

I dunno.......... Show me someone that is clearing $800 per month in profit here. Maybe in one good month it MIGHT happen but not consistantly. Look at how many basses are PERMENANTLY for sale, NEVER reduced and BUMPED a ZILLION times Even if someone has a source for used basses as you mentioned, the still have to list them at TB market value or they will go nowhere. Unless it's something special, people here quickly learn not to pay more for a bass than what they can quickly unload it for.

On our knife and gun forum private individuals buy and sell really expensive knives, guns and other gear all the time. Much like here, they are still only turning over a buck. The paid dealers buy at wholesale and can turn an good profit but they never complain about the private sellers. It's in everyones best interest to keep the secondary market strong. In order for people to buy new gear and support dealers they need to be able to move their old gear. Unless the dealers here are complaining, I don't see any problem.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by fenderhutz

I just don't think anyone including TomBowlus has enough GAS to cycle through 6-7 high dollar tranasactions in a month if they aren't making at a least some profit. Or have that much disposable income either.

No I am not going to point fingers, I only spot trends.

Its not so much about making profit as breaking even. I think if you actually observed the transactions going on, you;d see that no one is making a profit - most people are lucky to get back what they put in and most of the time they make a loss because of shipping. Some people just like trading gear. If you purchase a bass used from TB then you should be able to flip it for pretty much what you paid for it if you keep it in good shape (less shipping). Doing that 4 -5 times a month is no big deal if shipping is only $40-50. Thats only $250 per month which isn't that bigger deal to a lot of people. FWIW.