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09-14-2005, 03:47 AM
|  | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | | Jaco Pastorius FAQ ?
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It's getting to the point where every few weeks now we get a thread along the lines of somebody saying they don't "get" why Jaco Pastorius is so good or they don't really like his music, why is he so revered etc. etc.
So rather than every time, people having to trot out the same things, having the same arguments, the same heated exchanges...wouldn't it make a lot of sense to have a FAQ somewhere or links to/reciprocal agreement with http://www.jacopastorius.com/ possibly?
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
09-14-2005, 05:39 AM
|  | Registered User
Endorsing Artist: see profile | | Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: toms_river.nj.us | | nowhere in the rules does it say that you are not allowed to post something that has been asked/said before.... in the past bassists mods would close ANYTHING new that referenced certain players.
The way it's seen now, so long as the basic rules of TB are followed, a new Jaco/Fieldy/Carol Kaye/Favorite Metalica bassist post can be started everyday (as much as I dislike it too). We try to let TBers run with it for a while.... that's one of the charms of this place, you know, Talkin' Bass
Hey Bruce, you mean like that Jaco Link in the stickied thread in Bassists? Popular Topics [Check here before posting a new thread]
j-raj and I merge and or add to it all the time (last addition was 5 days ago). |
09-14-2005, 05:55 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | | I agree in a sense, if somebody has something new to say or ask...
As in - do you know what bass, xxxx bassist used on this track or what do you think of xxxx 's playing on the latest album, does xxxx have low action or high etc. etc.
I suppose the annoying thing in this case is that it's always the same thing - somebody comes along and says they don't like Jaco - what's the deal?
Can't we have something that covers this or says - if you don't 'get' Jaco - don't start yet another thread - go here : !!
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
09-14-2005, 12:13 PM
| | | | My stab at it:
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09-14-2005, 12:34 PM
| | Registered User
Endorsing Artist: see profile | | Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: toms_river.nj.us | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Basshole |
NEXT!
There was upfront, interesting bass before Jaco. I do agree with his worth in the molding of modern bassists... but to think he is the beginning of it all it just wrong IMO.
I played with a guitarist briefly that refused to listen to any music released prior to EVH as it was all below his standards... can you imagine being that close minded? |
09-14-2005, 01:15 PM
| | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by James Hart NEXT!
There was upfront, interesting bass before Jaco. I do agree with his worth in the molding of modern bassists... but to think he is the beginning of it all it just wrong IMO. | Congratulations, you're an adult. I think a James Jamerson reference may have been too obscure for the room. Milt Hinton was pretty upfront MF'er too. I think that woulda really bombed my point, though. Quote: |
Originally Posted by James Hart I played with a guitarist briefly that refused to listen to any music released prior to EVH as it was all below his standards... can you imagine being that close minded? | Well, then perhaps Charlie Christian references would have been lost on him too, huh?
Context, man. Context. There's zero point in being too hip for the room, unless you just wanna look smart. I was trying to write something accessible.
Last edited by Basshole : 09-14-2005 at 04:06 PM.
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09-14-2005, 01:32 PM
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Endorsing Artist: see profile | | Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: toms_river.nj.us | | 
sorry for leaving this guy -->  out of my other post...
I hear ya, it is a good post... I'm working on something for the top of bassists  |
09-14-2005, 01:49 PM
| | | | I'm a little short on smilies use too.
I think your point about the guitarist that wouldn't listen to anything before EVH kinda underscores my point about accessible references, though. Perhaps I shoulda left the Jimi reference out...I think the EVH milepost may be the only one that kids today can still have line-of-sight to. I still think the analogy may help some newbies understand the whole "Why Jaco" question.
I really think that a FAQ on this, and the contrabass issue might lessen the daily drama around here. There was a great thread on 5-strings just recently, where someone made a great post outlining nearly all of the advantages of a contrabass... |
09-14-2005, 03:58 PM
|  | Unleash the Burk | | Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London UK | | | Its funny, when I find a thread that I'm not interested in, I don't read it. I have never quite been able to work out why some people find this so incredibly difficult. Perhaps some people have some sort of spyware on their computer that forces them to read and post in every single thread that upsets them, every single time.
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Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker you're nothing but a **** stirring troll | Set your expectations accordingly.
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09-14-2005, 04:50 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: ottawa, ontario, canada | | | like highway tragedy rubber-neckers , it'll be in our genetic make up for another 30,000 years. |
09-15-2005, 02:55 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Well there's also the case of feeling that the great legacy and memory of somebody who died tragically early, who left a young family (some of whom have posted on TB before) shouldn't be trivialised and 'desecrated' in this way...?
It feels to me like people are 'vandalising' his grave - in a virtual sense. 
I am happy to talk seriously about Jaco's legacy and what it can teach you - but I'm not going to bother writing whole tracts every time his name comes up, if it's just another "attention seeker" trying to "stir up the hornet's nest" or ring on the doorbell and run away sniggering! 
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
09-15-2005, 04:26 AM
| | Unleash the Burk | | Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London UK | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield I am happy to talk seriously about Jaco's legacy and what it can teach you - but I'm not going to bother writing whole tracts every time his name comes up, if it's just another "attention seeker" trying to "stir up the hornet's nest" or ring on the doorbell and run away sniggering! | Sorry i'm confused now. Is someone forcing you to post in these threads?
I was under the impression that if you didnt want to "bother writing whole tracts each time his name comes up", you simply would just refrain from doing so. 
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Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker you're nothing but a **** stirring troll | Set your expectations accordingly.
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09-15-2005, 04:49 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Well - you left out the first half of my post which explained this!
So if you can't grasp this - imagine you have a teacher who shows you some amazing concepts, who shows you some great music - you really feel you know this person through their playing and their music.
This person dies tragically young and very sadly - but you think - well there's still their legacy of great music - great playing and compositions that will live on... 
But then people come along and dismiss that as 'crap' or worse - could you stand by and say nothing , allow that memory to be desecrated...
If so - then I feel sorry for you really....
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
09-15-2005, 05:00 AM
| | Unleash the Burk | | Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London UK | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield Well - you left out the first half of my post which explained this!
So if you can't grasp this - imagine you have a teacher who shows you some amazing concepts, who shows you some great music - you really feel you know this person through their playing and their music.
This person dies tragically young and very sadly - but you think - well there's still their legacy of great music - great playing and compositions that will live on...
But then people come along and dismiss that as 'crap' or worse - could you stand by and say nothing , allow that memory to be desecrated...
If so - then I feel sorry for you really.... | Yes, I could. I appreciate that people have different tastes in music and that some people will never "get" the things that I like nor why I do. YMMV.
Its sounds like you are suggesting that people can only have positive opinions about Jaco or his music. Doesn't that run contrary to your point that if people always agree there is nothing to discuss?
Perhaps we could just stop discussing anything that has ever been discussed before and change this to www.FAQbass.com 
Given that can't seem to ignore these threads then I can see why something as trivial as someone else's ill informed opinion would trouble you so much. Its kinda like a fish to a baited hook. Perhaps if you just choose to ignore them it would stress you out less.
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Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker you're nothing but a **** stirring troll | Set your expectations accordingly.
Last edited by Mark Latimour : 09-15-2005 at 05:04 AM.
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09-15-2005, 05:28 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Mark Latimour
Its sounds like you are suggesting that people can only have positive opinions about Jaco or his music. Doesn't that run contrary to your point that if people always agree there is nothing to discuss?
| No this is not what I am saying.
You seem to be having great difficulty in grasping what I am saying - I have tried to spell it out, but you seem to be deliberately avoiding the serious point I am making...?
Life's not always about 'flip comments' and 'clever' jokes - sometimes people need to be serious about things! Quote: |
Given that can't seem to ignore these threads then I can see why something as trivial as someone else's ill informed opinion would trouble you so much. Its kinda like a fish to a baited hook. Perhaps if you just choose to ignore them it would stress you out less. | Well if you can't understand why some people get upset when others "speak ill of the dead" then as I say - I'm sorry for you and if you have no emotions about people who have died tragically young and cannot understand this concept, then I think this says more about you as some kind of "cold fish" , than me...
__________________
“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
09-15-2005, 05:36 AM
| | Unleash the Burk | | Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London UK | | | 1. If someone wants to post a thread asking about Jaco or stating their opinion of Jaco then they can (provided it doesn't breach the forum rules).
2. If you do not want to see or read such threads, don't click on them.
3. Merely criticising an artists work, whether they be living or dead, is not "speaking ill of the dead". Artists put their work out there for public consumption and have to take the good with the bad. This doesnt matter if you're fieldy, kurt cobain, jaco or bethoven. If you get this upset everytime a dead artists work is criticised you must lead a pretty sad life.
4. Jaco doesn't need you to stick up for him. His work and his accomplishments speak for themself.
Chill out and let people ask their questions and post their opinions. Hell, you may even learn something.
BTW I think a FAQ is a reasonable idea - but to try and force people not to post ill about Jaco? Variety is the spice of life IMO.
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Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker you're nothing but a **** stirring troll | Set your expectations accordingly.
Last edited by Mark Latimour : 09-15-2005 at 05:42 AM.
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09-15-2005, 06:00 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | You're still misunderstanding what I'm saying - so I am saying that I can't stand idly by and see Jacos' legacy trashed because of how I feel - I'm not saying that everybody should like his work, but I can't simply ignore people rubbishing him out of hand!
I am happy to answer questions people pose or dicuss his legacy, talk about his music etc. etc. - but I am not going to write a long tract every time somobody says "Jaco is crap!" or words to that effect.
My position is very clear - but you seem determined to persist in a misundertanding of this...
I think it's pretty clear and many people have agreed that these thread are coming up so often now that something needs to be done about it and I am very glad to see that James says he is considering this.
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
09-15-2005, 06:05 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Mark Latimour - but to try and force people not to post ill about Jaco? . | I've never said that!! I've said that's the reason I can't stand by and ignore these threads - but I do think people need to show some kind of respect for the dead and for their family...?
So Jaco's children have had a hard life and one of his sons has actually posted on TB - what does he (and his brothers and sisters) think if they come here and see loads of threads saying Jaco was crap ....
Isn't this something we should be thinking about?
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
09-15-2005, 06:12 AM
| | Unleash the Burk | | Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London UK | | I'll let you have the last words. Your position couldn't be clearer Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield You're still misunderstanding what I'm saying - so I am saying that I can't stand idly by and see Jacos' legacy trashed because of how I feel - I'm not saying that everybody should like his work, but I can't simply ignore people rubbishing him out of hand!
I am happy to answer questions people pose or dicuss his legacy, talk about his music etc. etc. - but I am not going to write a long tract every time somobody says "Jaco is crap!" or words to that effect.
My position is very clear |
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Pics of my gear. Quote: |
Originally Posted by FL Knifemaker you're nothing but a **** stirring troll | Set your expectations accordingly.
|
09-15-2005, 06:29 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Well that seems very clear to me - so what I am asking for is a FAQ that details Jaco's legacy - so when somebody comes along and says "I don't get Jaco " - I'm not going to ignore it, but I can point to this FAQ rather than having to type reams and reams of stuff!
I don't see what's so difficult to understand about this?
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