Lightening up on the Lobby and OT - moderation of behaviour vs moderation of topics

[Mark Latimour]

Long time listener, first time caller. Well, not really. Basically it seems to me that both OT and the Lobby have become "strangled" (for want of a better term) recently by a move away from regulating / moderating behaviour of posters to a move towards moderation of topics regardless of behaviour. What I mean by that is that instead of letting potential topics run their course and merely moderating errant posts, it seems that topics are just being shut down and in some cases "blacklisted" for future discussions. The effect of this seems to be that both the Lobby and OT have now almost completely stagnated as places for users to have discussions about non-bass related topics.

A recently look at OT shows that the only threads there now are parodies of the current threads. Clearly, its the users fault for perpetuating these threads, but I can't help but feel that the lack of decent threads to participate in is at least in part because the band of things which can be discussed seems to be getting narrower. Maybe I am seeing things wrong, and the current state of OT and the Lobby is exactly what is desired. If so, then I guess the status quo must remain. However, I personally think that the "heart and soul" of both of these forums has disappeared over the last few months and they are now the proverbial dead fish gasping for air.

My suggestion is that the management committee gets together and rethinks ways in which they can "loosen up" on the reins of the off topic forums to allow a broader range of topics and users participating in discussions and refocus on regulating behaviour rather than the topics themselves. An example would be a discussion about the legality of drug use or gun control etc. Its perfectly possible for users to discuss the legal / ethical side of these things without breaching any rules. Users who choose to participate and breach the rules should be dealt with, but not at the expense of the topic / those who wish to participate.

I know that the flip side of this is "more work for the moderators", but I am not so sure that its desirable that "moderator comfort" should come at the expense of reducing forums down to almost inactivity or just a series of parody threads. After all, moderators are volunteers and can choose to step down if they feel the workload is too high. In any event more moderators could be moved to the "harder" to moderator forums to give better coverage.

Personally I would hate to see the current state of posting in OT and the Lobby continue herein because they are currently (IMO) pathetic imitations of what were great forums for users to have non-bass related discussions on this board and it would be great to get back to have a nice "place" for users to socialise and chew the fat.

£0.02 - not a criticism - just looking to start some discussion about the future of these non-bass related forums.

[Hawaii Islander]

A couple of additional moderators could be appointed to help out with OT and the Lobby so current Moderators don't get swamped. I volunteer Mark (and myself if needed) for this.

I practically live on Talkbass theses days anyway.

[MakiSupaStar]

I really agree with you Mark. Ouch that hurt. But I must say that you started this with your stupid level of discourse movement. The old be careful what you wish for has come full circle I'm afraid. Still, rather than just being the "I told you so" guy, I agree with you, and I think what you're saying holds a lot of validity.

[Mark Latimour]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

I really agree with you Mark. Ouch that hurt. But I must say that you started this with your stupid level of discourse movement. The old be careful what you wish for has come full circle I'm afraid. Still, rather than just being the "I told you so" guy, I agree with you, and I think what you're saying holds a lot of validity.

Actually the hope at the end of this is to raise the level of discourse by reintroducing the discussion of adult topics with moderation of the behaviour of participants rather than the topics themselves. By narrowing the range of permisible topics the level of discourse gets reduced to what it is now. I don't see how you are drawing a connection with the current state of OT and the "level of discourse" movement, as its the failure of people to respond to that that has, more or less, contributed to the current situation.

[Darkstrike]

Yup, this is whats needed, I'm sure they could get a few more mods easily enough.

[Vandelay]

I agree that people are capable of debating "hot button" topics politely and intelligently, but those people seem to be a small subset of OT. Mark, you know how to write a good rebuttal that actually moves a discussion forward, but more people here would rather just be snarky or angry, trying to score a cheap point. Because it takes too much effort to, like, provide references and facts and stuff. So these threads just disintegrate. Too much noise, not enough signal. I'm just not convinced that your suggestion would work.

And "gun control"? Ugh, bad example. Do we really need another gun control thread here?

[Hawaii Islander]

Originally Posted by Vandelay

I agree that people are capable of debating "hot button" topics politely and intelligently, but those people seem to be a small subset of OT. Mark, you know how to write a good rebuttal that actually moves a discussion forward, but more people here would rather just be snarky or angry, trying to score a cheap point. Because it takes too much effort to, like, provide references and facts and stuff. So these threads just disintegrate. Too much noise, not enough signal. I'm just not convinced that your suggestion would work.

And "gun control"? Ugh, bad example. Do we really need another gun control thread here?

That's exactly the type of posts that could be culled from a thread to keep things from getting out of hand. This could apply to any thread in any of the forums. I say kill the bad post rather than kill the thread topic (if possible).

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Vandelay

I agree that people are capable of debating "hot button" topics politely and intelligently, but those people seem to be a small subset of OT. Mark, you know how to write a good rebuttal that actually moves a discussion forward, but more people here would rather just be snarky or angry, trying to score a cheap point. Because it takes too much effort to, like, provide references and facts and stuff. So these threads just disintegrate. Too much noise, not enough signal. I'm just not convinced that your suggestion would work.

And "gun control"? Ugh, bad example. Do we really need another gun control thread here?

The problem with some topics is that they *always* bring out the Zax.
I sure think that gun control, religion, and politics are three of these subjects.

[Funkdrawer4]

What are us flyover country gun totin God fearing rightwingers gonna do?

[David Wilson]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Long time listener, first time caller. Well, not really. Basically it seems to me that both OT and the Lobby have become "strangled" (for want of a better term) recently by a move away from regulating / moderating behaviour of posters to a move towards moderation of topics regardless of behaviour. What I mean by that is that instead of letting potential topics run their course and merely moderating errant posts, it seems that topics are just being shut down and in some cases "blacklisted" for future discussions.

Mark,
I do agree with you about the Lobby. We need to rethink either it's purpose or the rules. I had actually raised this earlier today with the other co-admins after one thread ran it's predictable course.

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

The problem with some topics is that they *always* bring out the Zax.
I sure think that gun control, religion, and politics are three of these subjects.

Yes, that's the problem. Certain topics *always* seem to end in a death spiral.

It seems there are very few posters who can hold a sensible discourse on these topics without resorting to disrespect, name calling etc. As such, most of these threads follow a predictable path.

Mark, and everyone else, suggest away with your thoughts. I can't promise we'll implement every suggestion, but I can promise we'll *listen* to every suggestion. We're also certainly open to trying out new rules/protocols for periods of time to see what works best.

[Curtybob]

I agree with this as well.

I was on staff on a computer forum where spammers were the biggest nuisance, but the occassional flame war would break out and require some big pimp hand waving. And even after seeing the action from that side of the fence, I still cringe every time I hear someone calling for another discussion topic to be banned.

[jkritchey]

I'd like to see a change as well. My participation is down to almost nil, as the Lobby and OT (my former favorites) have become uninteresting, repetitive and unfriendly, IMHO.

I'm sad to say I've done little to change it, as I don't feel as comfortable opening a thread and trying to keep it on topic as I do chiming in. That, and frankly, my time has become a little to tight for the type of active participation that might require.

I do understand the mods position though. There just isn't anything left to say on many of the hot button topics. It just immediately lets off a stink and dies...

To sum up, if anyone can lead the way, it's Mark. I hope some accommodations can be made.

[mike_v_s]

Hmmm. I'll start posting more threads related to property management. That'll set this place on FIRE.

Mike

[mike_v_s]

See my heavily traffiked thread on public domestic diturbances for even more Off Topic enrichment. I'll try this a few more times and then I'm just going to start lying. It's a good thing no one reads this part of the website or my devious plan would become public.

Mike

[mike_v_s]

See my heavily traffiked thread on public domestic disturbances for even more Off Topic enrichment. I'll try this a few more times and then I'm just going to start lying. It's a good thing no one reads this part of the website or my devious plan would become public.

Mike

[Jonny B]

Originally Posted by mike_v_s

Hmmm. I'll start posting more threads related to property management. That'll set this place on FIRE.

Mike

The scary thing about that is, I would look forward to a thread about property management.

[mike_v_s]

Originally Posted by Jonny B

The scary thing about that is, I would look forward to a thread about property management.

I already had one this week (see thread: Everyone loves me). It gives a few lessons from my end of the table when a party is interested in buying/leasing your property. Not exactly dick and fart jokes, but hey, I'm working my way down.

Mike

[mike_v_s]

Another scorcher!! Coworker madness!! Better read it before I plummets to page two in the next 45 minutes.

Mike

[mike_v_s]

Forget it. Experiment cancelled. Mark, I had made an attempt to infuse non-controversial-but-somewhat-interesting threads that didn't invlove farting into OT, but my most recent was shut down because one person posted 3 politically charged posts. In light of this, I now agree with you and will go back to my usual BS.

Mike

[john turner]

hey mark, can you give me an idea on what topics you feel squelched on?

thanks.