Politics and religion in Off Topic

[12bass]

I recently received an infraction for mentioning "faith" and posting a politically-related news article in the off topic thread on global warming.

It is my view that both politics and religion are an inextricable part of one's world view, and that it is all but impossible to present one's thoughts without some expression of these underlying matters, whether intentional or not.

Unfortunately, I'm having a rather difficult time discerning what constitutes infraction-worthy discussion of religion or politics on TalkBass. I bring this up because many people here have overtly religious signatures, post religious epithets, mention political figures, etc... I see this frequently throughout the forum and consider it evidence for de facto acceptance of some degree of religious/political expression. Further, due to the above reasons, a zero tolerance policy would be extremely difficult to enforce.

So, what I'm left wondering is where the line is drawn on this slippery slope, and how does someone know what is appropriate and what is inappropriate before they post a response and receive an infraction? As it stands, the distinctions seem rather murky. Thus, I'd like to have a clear guideline from the forum administrators for future reference, not only for myself, but also for others who might be wanting to stay within the forum guidelines.

Thanks.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by 12bass

As it stands, the distinctions seem rather murky.

Arbitrary.

[neurotictim]

Originally Posted by 12bass

I bring this up because many people here have overtly religious signatures, post religious epithets, mention political figures, etc... I see this frequently throughout the forum and consider it evidence for de facto acceptance of some degree of religious/political expression. Further, due to the above reasons, a zero tolerance policy would be extremely difficult to enforce.

Good point, though...

[lneal]

Originally Posted by 12bass

I bring this up because many people here have overtly religious signatures, post religious epithets, mention political figures, etc...

This is a very good point and it doesn't surprise me at all that this thread has died. The uneven and random enforcement of policies is one reason why I never ponied up the money to renew my supporting membership and why I don't come around here as often as I used to. Myself, I don't believe in any gods or religions, and frankly am tired of having it shoved down my throat by well meaning but misguided people, even if it's just a sig. The political discussions, however seem to be very closely moderated. I suspect, 12bass, that this thread will just be left to fade on into oblivion.........

Please, talkbass, come up with some hard and fast rules concerning religious references in sigs and conversation on the forums.

[shank235]

Originally Posted by lneal

This is a very good point and it doesn't surprise me at all that this thread has died. The uneven and random enforcement of policies is one reason why I never ponied up the money to renew my supporting membership and why I don't come around here as often as I used to. Myself, I don't believe in any gods or religions, and frankly am tired of having it shoved down my throat by well meaning but misguided people, even if it's just a sig. The political discussions, however seem to be very closely moderated. I suspect, 12bass, that this thread will just be left to fade on into oblivion.........

Please, talkbass, come up with some hard and fast rules concerning religious references in sigs and conversation on the forums.

Some people may find a post about your lack of faith overtly religous.

[D.Don]

Originally Posted by 12bass

I recently received an infraction for mentioning "faith" and posting a politically-related news article in the off topic thread on global warming.

It is my view that both politics and religion are an inextricable part of one's world view, and that it is all but impossible to present one's thoughts without some expression of these underlying matters, whether intentional or not.

Unfortunately, I'm having a rather difficult time discerning what constitutes infraction-worthy discussion of religion or politics on TalkBass. I bring this up because many people here have overtly religious signatures, post religious epithets, mention political figures, etc... I see this frequently throughout the forum and consider it evidence for de facto acceptance of some degree of religious/political expression. Further, due to the above reasons, a zero tolerance policy would be extremely difficult to enforce.

So, what I'm left wondering is where the line is drawn on this slippery slope, and how does someone know what is appropriate and what is inappropriate before they post a response and receive an infraction? As it stands, the distinctions seem rather murky. Thus, I'd like to have a clear guideline from the forum administrators for future reference, not only for myself, but also for others who might be wanting to stay within the forum guidelines.

Thanks.

I started a thread about my reflections of the movie "SICKO" that got moved to the locked member area where you have to pay to access...

TB is a nice community with lots of very friendly and dedicated people, but I am not completely convinced that I will become a supporting member after that, no one even told me what happened and when I asked one of the mods I never got a reply, so the thread probably went on without me and the other non paying members that where involved in the discussion.

Whatever, this issue was not really a big deal, the thread got into a political discussion about the US healthcare system and I guess this is really not the right forum to discuss these things anyway,.

D.Don

[12bass]

Interesting to see this topic get so much attention lately. As I said earlier, I find the status quo on this matter confusing at best. Thus, I'd still like to see the administrators make an attempt to clearly define the limits of allowable discussion here, and also make an attempt to enforce those regulations equally across the entire membership of this community, not allowing certain groups to have preferred status.

[12bass]

Originally Posted by shank235

Some people may find a post about your lack of faith overtly religous.
__________________
Christian Praise & Worship Bassist Club Member #276

Oh the irony....

[shank235]

Not trying to start a heated debate but I have found the posters in talkbass extremely vocal and hostile to all religions. I don't see how my signature, or some of the postings dealing with aspects of playing in church are disrespectful. Why is it the majority seem to preach tolerance, but the only people this tolerance does not apply to is Christians? If this was banned I would leave talkbass completely. I only play Christian music so the two topics are not exclusive of each other.

[12bass]

FWIW, I received an infraction for making a critical comment regarding faith, without reference to any specific religion. I don't see the bias claimed above at all....

[shank235]

That is probably true, most of my problem was in the lobby which not everybody has access too. One of the most vocal people was a moderator. Either side of this issue is going to have a funny taste in their mouth.

[mvw356]

rules are rules, but their application may seem unfair to some. the problem is that a lot of posts may enter a grey area and some mods consider it over the line, where as others may not. i've had some of my posts deleted, but i'm not really worried about that (it's not like my opinion matters to burk anyway). as people refrain from namecalling and swearwords i think the spirit here in genreal is positive and therefore i participate in some of the lobby threads.

fyi discussing mods and their decisions is not really accepted. write them a pm and sort out your issues privately. they may not respond to you immediately because they have a life and being a mod is not a good business to be in.

[12bass]

Originally Posted by mvw356

fyi discussing mods and their decisions is not really accepted. write them a pm and sort out your issues privately. they may not respond to you immediately because they have a life and being a mod is not a good business to be in.

I'm not discussing either. Rather, I'm trying to ascertain what the rules actually are....

I've asked for clarification on the rules, as they are not clearly defined. Clearly defined rules about politics and religion on TalkBass would be beneficial to all participants of this forum, because they would know exactly what was and was not acceptable and easily avoid future infractions.

[Mark Latimour]

FWIW I hear on the grapevine that politics may be allowed in the Lobby again. So, if you want to discuss no bass related stuff like politics and religion on TB, pony up your $20 and go for it.

As for clarification on the rules, to me if you want to be safe its pretty damn easy - don't post anything that could reasonably be interpretted as being either a political statement or a religious statement. Seems pretty simple. The issue is always when people want to "push" the boundaries as to whats politics and what's not. If you want to be a "pusher" then, chances are, from time to time you will get pinged for making a political or religious post in OT. So the question you have to ask yourself is: "Am I happy to play it safe or do I want to push the rules"? Only you can answer that for yourself.

Remember, just because someone posts something that may be political or religious in OT doesn't mean that:

a) its okay; and

b) you have to respond.

If you want to respond, and you have to ask yourself whether your post might be politics or religion, then you are responsible if it turns out to be an infraction worthy post. No one forced you to write anything. Its no defence to say that "he didn't get pinged and I did", because this is not a court of law, there is no precedent and you are only responsible for your own posts.

In summary: I think the rules are pretty clear and its pretty easy to avoid making political or religious posts. Its only difficult if you want to make posts that rub up against the boundaries of the rules.

[12bass]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

In summary: I think the rules are pretty clear and its pretty easy to avoid making political or religious posts. Its only difficult if you want to make posts that rub up against the boundaries of the rules.

If these rules are as clear as you suggest, please explain in detail what would definitely be considered contravention. The de facto state of affairs regarding political and religious avatars and signature files is highly problematic in itself, as it would seem to be a clear violation... and even possibly the words next to your avatar!

Sure, we can simply avoid any mention of anything which might possibly be construed as either political or religious, but doing so would badly limit free expression in fear of possible offense. Clearly stated rules eliminates this problem.....

[*smb]

I don't know why anyone is that bothered. Does anyone care what some other guy sat behind a computer thinks of politician X or religion Y? If the staff here can persuade people that $20 to argue on these subjects is a bargain then they deserve every penny.

[neurotictim]

But people do care. Lots of people, for reasons unknown.

IMO, a "Christian Praise & Worship Club Member" sig doesn't bother me, nor does an avatar with a cross or pentagram. As long as people aren't trying to convince me that my way is wrong, I don't really care. Truthfully, even a link to someone's church in their sig wouldn't bother me - I don't have to click it.

An avatar or a signature is like a bumper sticker in a virtual freeway, to me - it reflects more about you than anything else. If I don't like what's on your bumper sticker, I may not take you seriously, but that's on me, not you.

[palm grease]

this place aint what it used to be!!!!!

i find it to be a pro gun, religion rally with the same "bass related" threads that used to haunt the boards back in 03'!

the best bass player.....
the best bass.....
flea sucks.....
the worst yadda yadda.....

i've seen posters support homophobia and racism only to be rewarded by the decision makers.... this forum isn't for everyone, it's only for a select few. with some exceptions most of the players that actually posted usefull info and views are no longer here. i miss those guys!


just my experience and 2 cents.

not allowing "political and religious" topics while allowing bible quotes, praise clubs and gun threads seems like the mgt might be a lil biased.

pay $20 to have access to the lobby in order to argue with other bass players?.... why? so i get a picture below my name? what is it that i'd be supporting?

truly, i give up!


what ever happened to bassnutz?

[neurotictim]

Maybe I'm not looking in the right places, but for the most part, I think it's a pretty balanced place. Or maybe I'm just not taking offense to things I should. *shrug*

I think if you look for problems in any forum, be it online or otherwise, you'll find the problems you're looking for.

[mike_v_s]

Originally Posted by palm grease

this place aint what it used to be!!!!!

...with some exceptions most of the players that actually posted usefull info and views are no longer here. i miss those guys!

No need to worry. I was only taking a short break and I'm back now (kinda like the Second Coming). The letters and flowers were a nice touch, but wholly unneccessary.

Mike