Help me out pleace, I need to get better

Bad Brains · #1 03-02-2005, 07:56 PM

I'm trying to better myself because I feel I am stuck in one of those ruts. I try playing with people, but the guitarist always asked me what "key" I want to play in. I havn't a clue what this means, and no one has been able to give me an explaniation without confusing me to death.

I don't like playing with people because someone always asks me this, and I just say forget it, and put the bass down.

Anyways someone told me it's just a scale and the notes played on the scale (?). I found this website with tons of different scales, but they are all played in a "key of C".

Anyone know where I can find scales for different keys, like A,b,d,e ect ect?? I'm getting bored with playing in C, and I can't find anything about this anywhere online. This stuff is confusing.

The_Ryst · #2 03-02-2005, 08:55 PM

The key is learning the PATTERN for the scale. Google around for Major and Minor patterns. That'll be a start...

FreeSpirit · #3 03-02-2005, 09:03 PM

Here, i'll try to keep this simple.

The "key" a song is in refers to how many sharps or flats are in its scale.

Here is a little chart i use, i have it posted all over, i have one taped to the top of my bass head, one in each of my cases, in all my diffrent music binders/books and so on.

Flats Sharps
C 0 C
F 1 G
Bb 2 D
Eb 3 A
Ab 4 E
Db 5 B
Gb 6 F#
Cb 7 C#

So reading the chart is easy; you find what key they say to play in, then whatever number is beside it(0-7) that is how many flats or sharps are in that key signature.

The order of sharps and flats(what sharps and ach key signature) is easy to remember, Starts going forwards for sharps and backwards for flats(you'll understand in a minute what that means.)

F C G D A E B

An easy rhyme to rember the order is Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle for sharps. the Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles Father for flats.

So here it is in final with each key signiture and which sharps and flats are in each:

Sharps:
0-C: no sharps
1-G: F
2-D: F+C
3-A: F+C+G
4-E: F+C+G+D
5-B: F+C+G+D+A
6-F#: F+C+G+D+A+E
7-C#: F+C+G+D+A+E+B

Flats:
0-C: no flats
1-F: B
2-Bb: B+E
3-Eb: B+E+A
4-Ab: B+E+A+D
5-Db: B+E+A+D+G
6-Gb: B+E+A+D+G+C
7-Cb: B+E+A+D+G+C+F

I hope this helps, if you need any more help leave a message or private message me and i'll get back to you. or i'm sure someone else could help you, maybee even more then me.

Kyle

Bad Brains · #4 03-02-2005, 11:20 PM

See once again I am completly lost. Probably 30 people have tried explaining this to be over the past 6 months and it seems to bounce right off me.

Going down the fretboard (foward) is a sharp, and going up the fretboard (backwards) is a flat?

According to your chart.
0-7 are the diffent keys you can play in, with the correct number of sharps and flats added to a scale you want to play?

The strings go G-D-A-E, so which string do I play the flats & sharps on? I don't have a F-C-or B string, so i'm also lost there too.

Also where on the Fretboard do you start?

Thanks for what you have given me regardless. I have frustrated many people trying to get this, and I have been frustrating myself ever since I started practicing (seriously practicing) because I seem to be too stupid to understand something that seems so simple to everyone else who plays.

Maybe I need a instructor to sit down with me and go over this with me in person (i'd probaby frustrate them too). I don't really need bass lessons, I need "Key" lessons. If I ever understand this I think I could do alright.

PunkerTrav · #5 03-02-2005, 11:43 PM

There are lots of great books that can help you out. I think a book, or better yet a teacher, will be easier for you to learn from than an internet forum. There are tons of great information here, but to develop the bassics, there are more efficient methods.

Go to your local music store and look for a book about scales and key signatures. I can't think of any examples off the top of me head, but I'm sure somebody here will be able to recommend you a good one.

Workign through these slowly with a teacher is the ideal way to learn them and be able to apply the concepts, but if you can't get a teacher for whatever reason, a book will be a good starting place. Especially if you have other musicians around you to help you out.

Good luck to you,
Travis

EDIT: I think a method book would be good, because they will show you where to play the notes as well as the names.

Nazman · #6 03-04-2005, 02:54 PM

http://www.basstabs.net/basics/scale...Action=Find+It

reiver1 · #7 03-05-2005, 06:29 PM

See if this helps:

There are 12 keys, each made up of a scale of 8 notes .

Strap on your bass.
your strings are E A D G from top down as you look at them with the bass strappped on.

Find 3rd fret on the A string....that's C.
Play a C scale by playing these:
C=3rd fret, A string-first finger
D-5th fret, A string-4th finger
E=2nd fret, D string-1st finger
F=3rd fret, D string-2nd finger
G=5th fret, D string-4th finger
A=2nd fret, G string-1st finger
B=4th fret, G string-3rd fiinger
C=5th fret, G string-4th finger (this is the Octave or 8th note where the scale starts over)

notice the fingering pattern:
first, fourth
first, second, fourth
first, third, fourth
That pattern works for any number of scales.
Tell your buds you want to play in C and use the scale above to work out your licks

If you want to play in the key of G, start the pattern on G (third fret, E string) and follow the pattern

You can play scales in any key using this one pattern. Just find the root note(the note the scale is named for) They may not be the most efficient fingering, but they'll get you started while you find a basic bass book that shows this in print.

No go forth and make music

PS, it's OK to IM me for more detail.

cb56 · #8 03-05-2005, 06:59 PM

How old are you? If you are still young enough to be in high school, take advatage of the music programs even if it means playing triangle in the school band. If you are older than that, I'd say it's time for a music theory course at your area junior college.
This has to be my first post in the tab forum.

pil · #9 03-05-2005, 08:07 PM

Have to agree with the chap above...and i was too like you so im gonna recommend a book to you...

Its called 'Bass Guitar for Dummies':

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

If you only buy one book to help your playing with theory...buy this one! I know i sound like a salesman but it really is a great book, pretty cheap too!

All the best

travatron4000 · #10 03-05-2005, 08:07 PM

Bad Brains,
It seems to me that you need to know your fingerboard better before you try to deal with keys and scales. You need to understand the very basics of music. Get a book, get a teacher. Do you know all 12 pitches and where they are on the finger board? if not search or just ask, i'm sure there's a good chard out there somewhere. Like here. http://www.visionmusic.com/lessons/bassneck.html

Bad Brains · #11 03-11-2005, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travatron4000

Bad Brains,
It seems to me that you need to know your fingerboard better before you try to deal with keys and scales. You need to understand the very basics of music. Get a book, get a teacher. Do you know all 12 pitches and where they are on the finger board? if not search or just ask, i'm sure there's a good chard out there somewhere. Like here. http://www.visionmusic.com/lessons/bassneck.html

The pathetic part is....I have been playing about 2 years now. I have put many 4 hours+ of practice days in as well. I'm just too stupid to learn music or something. I really can't explain why this stuff dosn't make any sense to me, how is it possible for me to be playing as much as I do and still not have any idea what i'm doing?

Argggg frustration!!! I will just continue to play alone in my room as a hobby I guess. No jamming with other people for me.

maverick · #12 03-11-2005, 02:56 PM

[quote=Bad Brains]I'm trying to better myself because I feel I am stuck in one of those ruts. I try playing with people, but the guitarist always asked me what "key" I want to play in. I havn't a clue what this means, and no one has been able to give me an explaniation without confusing me to death.

I don't like playing with people because someone always asks me this, and I just say forget it, and put the bass down. [quote]

i learned playing by ear. it's the modern way of teaching instruments in schools these days so it cant be bad. i'd get the guitarist to start and i'd catch up, so after a couple of practice runs we had the tune. it also made my bass lines individual. and the other thing you do need to knw is practice, practice practice!!

Bad Brains · #13 03-11-2005, 03:41 PM

[quote=maverick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Brains

i learned playing by ear. it's the modern way of teaching instruments in schools these days so it cant be bad. i'd get the guitarist to start and i'd catch up, so after a couple of practice runs we had the tune. it also made my bass lines individual. and the other thing you do need to knw is practice, practice practice!!

I pretty much learn by ear too. I usually just fiddle around with the strings until I get something that sounds good to me, and then just groove it out for a while.

I'm fine when I play with a drummer and I spend a lot of time practicing scales and tabs, but when a good guitarist wants to join in I have to explain to him I don't understand the concept of playing "in key".

The drummer I know loves playing with me, says i'm "fun", the guitarist says i'm hard to follow, which I assume I would be. I need to straighten myself out I think.

Bad Brains · #14 03-11-2005, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMASH

What school would that be? My guess is school of hard knocks.

It's very much the hard way to try learning by ear if you don't practice fundamentals which, along with your fingers and brain, train your ears so you can actually tell what you're hearing and convert it to your fingers.

I'm not saying it can't be done by ear, just saying it's much easier to do it the right way.

This is true. When I first started playing, it was more just for fun, to kill some time. If I would have known then I would be serious about playing now, I would have sought lessons. I might actually be good now!

maverick · #15 03-12-2005, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMASH

What school would that be? My guess is school of hard knocks.

It's very much the hard way to try learning by ear if you don't practice fundamentals which, along with your fingers and brain, train your ears so you can actually tell what you're hearing and convert it to your fingers.

I'm not saying it can't be done by ear, just saying it's much easier to do it the right way.

the schools i'm talking about are here in England. my kid is learning sax and thats the way they teach in the music department now. it seems to work too. i just went to a schools concert and it was great to see all these kids making music. they also learn all the fundementals but the idea is to get the kids ears tuned in first then add the rest. i'm not saying which way is best, just different ways work with different people. lessons for BB could help to bring everything together.

jusaplaya · #16 04-08-2005, 04:27 PM

Get a teacher and an decent book. Better yet, take a beginning piano course. It is all laid out in front of you on the piano. If you can visualize it on akeyboard it may help you on the fretboard. That is what I kind of rely on. It was about 30 years ago that I took piano lessons, but they have proven invaluable in the year or so I have been playin bass.

Woodsey · #17 04-15-2005, 06:01 AM

i agree with jusaplaya, piano lessons all those years ago really helped build the fundimentals for me. Once you understand the way scales and keys work on a piano, it's easy to transfer them to bass, infact, because the same pattern can be shifted around the fretboard, its actually easier.

w

tifa · #18 04-15-2005, 07:07 AM

There's an excellent article right here on TB! Just click on 'Articles' and 'Intro to Scale and Chord Theory'.

I'm just starting out and it's one of the clearest explanations of basic music theory I've read

Go Jazzbo!

xpcapox · #19 04-15-2005, 01:43 PM

www.activebass.com
go to basics.
scale finder:
note on left is the key,the right is what kind of scale.
your welcome.

HunsBassist · #20 05-10-2005, 04:34 PM

Bad Brains,
If your still having trouble after all the advice given here, my advice is learn Piano. It's the gateway to learning the musical theory that will be invaluable in learning any instrument. I would be completely lost if I hadn't learned piano before bass. It really helps. I'm really not a great piano player by any means. I just spent a month or two learning the basics and formed a great basis for understanding of music.
Hope this helps,
Matt the Hun