All Originals or Do Some Covers Too?

[StyleOverShow]

A band that I've been working in rehearsal for over 2 months is just about ready to move out of the lab and onto a stage.

Don't know what it is like where you are but here in the LaLa land, it is pay-to-play for all original bands in clubs with people or free in places where there aren't any (people).

The band's songwriter/singer/guitarist is a bit of a passive-aggressive perfectionist. We have spent hours in rehearsals redefining the tempos and feels ultimately giving in and playing what he wants.

Recently a KB and backup vocalists have made notable improvements in the richness of the overall sound and we in the rhythm section find we have to play less because there is so much more going on (where formerly with just the one singer we had to fill more). It is a beautiful thing to watch something come to fruition.

So now we have to add some covers, R&B stuff that the two backups singers, both African-American females, can do without any problem. The only issue is how will 'the talent' feel about it?

I know that if we don't do a mix, perhaps as high as 50% of originals and covers, we will increase the difficulty of finding gigs, and therefore become more likely to drift apart after some time.

For those of you who are in the same situation:

1. How did the singer/songwriter handle someone else being the lead singer?
2. Do we introduce ourselves as a cover band and then spring the originals on them?
3. From what I hear, you get 20 to 30 minutes and in that time what is your mix of original/covers?

Finally, I'll add that it is interesting that as the 'talent' takes over the show, the drummer and I turned into sidemen who waited while they worked out harmonies and then 8 bars and wait some more. We are, by the nature of our instruments, largely background (necessary and fundamental like gravity but not up front).

-richard

[gweimer]

The band's songwriter/singer/guitarist is a bit of a passive-aggressive perfectionist. We have spent hours in rehearsals redefining the tempos and feels ultimately giving in and playing what he wants.

I may be wrong, but I think you're about to run headlong into a blind alley.

[Matt Dean]

necessary and fundamental like gravity

That's nicely put... I think I'll use that for my signature!

[Jeb]

Originally Posted by StyleOverShow

1. How did the singer/songwriter handle someone else being the lead singer?
2. Do we introduce ourselves as a cover band and then spring the originals on them?
3. From what I hear, you get 20 to 30 minutes and in that time what is your mix of original/covers?

Finally, I'll add that it is interesting that as the 'talent' takes over the show, the drummer and I turned into sidemen who waited while they worked out harmonies and then 8 bars and wait some more. We are, by the nature of our instruments, largely background (necessary and fundamental like gravity but not up front).

-richard

Don't introduce yourselves as anything. No one cares, just do what you do. Covers make money, "Pay to play" is something I never could quite figure out. Lots of egos in most bands and many have convinced themselves that their original material is good. It almost always is very, very bad. Your original material likely appeals to your band alone. Think about that. Your songs have to appeal to more than just you and your band's egos.

Where I come from, you have to fill a 4 hour time slot with 3 hours of music if you want to get paid. Sneak your originals in where you can and don't announce them until after the fact (and only if they go over well). Bands that work for their venue's interests get asked back and get paid for their efforts. Bands that don't... well they get to continue in their 'artistry'. Unless they have great songs that appeal to a broad number of people. Most band's original material doesn't even come close to appealling to anyone.

Be honest with yourself about this stuff. I see it all the time. Its almost embarrassing to watch and the perps think that they're doing a great job? Wow.

Finally, the sideman status thing? Pay attention to that. You're on your way to "regularly paid bass player" status the better you get at that stuff.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by Jeb

Don't introduce yourselves as anything. No one cares, just do what you do. Covers make money, "Pay to play" is something I never could quite figure out. Lots of egos in most bands and many have convinced themselves that their original material is good. It almost always is very, very bad. Your original material likely appeals to your band alone. Think about that. Your songs have to appeal to more than just you and your band's egos.

Where I come from, you have to fill a 4 hour time slot with 3 hours of music if you want to get paid. Sneak your originals in where you can and don't announce them until after the fact (and only if they go over well). Bands that work for their venue's interests get asked back and get paid for their efforts. Bands that don't... well they get to continue in their 'artistry'. Unless they have great songs that appeal to a broad number of people. Most band's original material doesn't even come close to appealling to anyone.

Be honest with yourself about this stuff. I see it all the time. Its almost embarrassing to watch and the perps think that they're doing a great job? Wow.

Finally, the sideman status thing? Pay attention to that. You're on your way to "regularly paid bass player" status the better you get at that stuff.

+1 to this. In any band I have been in we played mostly covers but when we played an original we didn't announce it. If it went over well we would then say something. Why bands today beat their heads against the wall by playing just originals for no money or worse pay to play is beyond me. Why would you only want to play 30 minutes instead of 4 hours? Why would you want to share a bill with a band that might make your band look like crap when you could be the only entertainment playing that night? I guess i really shouldn't care. The bands that do it the hard way just means less competition for the paying gigs.

[walterw]

why would you pay to play someone else's music?

i've never experienced the pay-to-play thing, but it seems to me that if you're basically "showcasing" your band in hopes of getting some interest in the songs, all-original is the only way to go. if you do want to throw in a cover, it should be something that's not top 40 but "sounds like you" and keeps the vibe, or something unlikely that you turn inside out so that it still sounds like you.

around here, cover bands get booked and paid to play covers. the crowd that likes cover bands won't give a damn about your original stuff. meanwhile, people that like original music hate cover bands and won't be there, so trying to "sneak in" originals is a waste of time.

if you want to find an audience for your own music, that's what you need to play. it may mean playing no more than once a month or so, but there it is.

[Phalex]

I used to practice twice a week with my original band, and we played out maybe once every other month. My coverband plays out twice a week, and we practice about twice a month on average.

IME getting regular bookings requires at least some covers. Play some covers, and get into some clubs where you have the opportunity to play your original stuff infront of people.

We throw some original stuff into our sets every night. Think of covers as the warm up act. Use them to get people in a frame of mind where they'll be receptive to anything you do.

[StyleOverShow]

Originally Posted by Phalex

...Think of covers as the warm up act. Use them to get people in a frame of mind where they'll be receptive to anything you do.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, stay within the genre and play something the crowd knows.

Have been in too many cover bands to do it as a main gig (have been playing since the early 70's). Still do straight ahead jazz gigs but sight reading (sweating bullets is not my idea of fun) and the "Real Books", etc. are getting to be like covers after six years of playing them. Thought an originals band might just be what the doctor ordered.

To hear it: nextcat.com/danielg

Thanks all

[Jeb]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Think of covers as the warm up act. Use them to get people in a frame of mind where they'll be receptive to anything you do.

Sure, you can think of it that way. But people won't be receptive to "anything you do" unless its good and you do it well. Regardless of their frame of mind (don't even presume to control that for cryin' out loud).

You have to have good material. Period.

Good luck.

[Lunchbox4u_6]

I play with a singer who writes her own stuff and she has a lot of material, but we also play covers that are in the same genre as her originals. I think the key is making the covers your own. We don't play the songs like they're recorded, we play them the way we sound.

[Spoonology]

My band generally goes halvies, like this was a set we did at a charity event the other week.

1) I Am A Matador*
2) Mr. Brightside
3) Chatter*
4) Mountains
5) Regardless*
6) Ruby
7) Wrong Way To Feel Fine*
8) No Change*
9) Kids (Acoustic)
10) Wires (Solo)
11) Love Machine
12) Ditch Your Old Friends*
13) Song 2
14) Prof. Back By The Sunset*
15) Blood Sugar
16) Melodrama*

17) That's Not My Name/Sex on Fire Medley


The starred ones are original. It was a good set, the covers are well known and people recognise them and the originals are pretty strong, plus we have a rather loyal fanbase which means people are starting to remember our stuff.

When you start it's best to go mainly originals but as you get bigger and your fanbase increases you can afford to start shifting the balance in favour of originals.

[HugheJapackage]

in a 30 minute set we usually do 4 originals and 3 VERY well known covers(like all the small things or something popular that fits your style)
It gets our music out but keeps the crowd interested in us because they recognize at least some of the music

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by StyleOverShow

So now we have to add some covers, R&B stuff that the two backups singers, both African-American females, can do without any problem. The only issue is how will 'the talent' feel about it?

The ONLY issue?

Why would you ask the talent to start playing covers when the band is an original's band?

He'll probably vomit when the word "covers" is spoken.

Good luck.

[Kenny Allyn]

Originally Posted by Lunchbox4u_6

I play with a singer who writes her own stuff and she has a lot of material, but we also play covers that are in the same genre as her originals. I think the key is making the covers your own. We don't play the songs like they're recorded, we play them the way we sound.

Amen and Amen !!!


Just tonight I played with a new in town singer/songwriter who has NO problem working in his originals with covers that sound like his style (blues/blues,rock) the project has a lot of potential.

Understand that blues is a heritage type genre, and it's expected that you pay homage to the masters. Indie, metal and such may be totally different?

Bottom line most paying gigs are 3 to 4 hours and that is totally different than a multi-band showcase gig.

To each his own, but the truth is most of the really big acts today and in the past played their own versions of covers to get started ... Eric Clapton being a real good example.

... And the list goes on and on .

[hbarcat]

Something you may want to consider is many venues have their own rules about your mix of covers and originals. Some clubs can insist that cover bands don't play any originals (in which case you may have to sneak them in).

But it sounds like you have the opposite problem - venues that expect you to play originals and they might not like the fact that you are playing covers. This may even be a legal issue as many clubs (at least around here) that host bands that play covers have to pay a monthly licensing fee to the music publishers group (I forget what they're called) that is based roughly on the amount of cover tunes they expect to be played in their venue during the month. Venues that advertise as catering to original bands usually aren't paying this fee and it is technically illegal for them to host bands that do play covers. They may not care if you sneak in one or two covers in among a big pile of originals, but if you are getting close to a 50/50 mix then they will probably blow a gasket.

[oi_pride]

if you have to play covers then do it and sneak your own songs in most people will claim to have heard a song before even if they haven't, so it definitely wouldn't hurt to throw one or two in, and if people ask tell them. eventually you'll get enough buzz that if you have to pay to play then you can afford it. or if you want to do all originals all the time try to set up your own shows B.Y.O.B., get a keg and sell $5 a cup and free beer or something. where i live a lot of the clubs are either covers or originals.

[Skyblue977]

I'm with Jeb on this one. My band would much prefer to play originals only but by doing covers we can get the 3-4 hour gigs and with originals only we share the bill with 3-4 other bands and have our 45 min slot. With the covers it's really easy to slip in 3 originals each set as these originals are middle of the road easly listening guitar rock.

[JulienJeff]

Originally Posted by modulusman

+1 to this. In any band I have been in we played mostly covers but when we played an original we didn't announce it. If it went over well we would then say something. Why bands today beat their heads against the wall by playing just originals for no money or worse pay to play is beyond me. Why would you only want to play 30 minutes instead of 4 hours? Why would you want to share a bill with a band that might make your band look like crap when you could be the only entertainment playing that night? I guess i really shouldn't care. The bands that do it the hard way just means less competition for the paying gigs.

personaly, I've never been interested in playing covers.
My band only does originals and we're happy what we do this way.
We can't make a 4 hours gig but we prefer to make a 50 minutes set with only our songs, and see the audience liking it.
There's no way I would pay to play, but there's no way I would make covers to be paid or to make a longer set.
For me it's just too "easy" to make covers and entertain doing it. Cover a radiohead song, a RATM song, a red hot song etc. and you'll have a perfect set to entertain. But I play to entertain myself first and it doesn't work (to me at least) with covers.

[Moe Monsarrat]

We play mostly original material in Stop The Truck (our country band) but we play a few older covers. It's all stuff you never hear anywhere else anymore. That way it's not so cheesy as playing say...a Toby Keith or Travis Tritt or Diamond Rio hit song. We just ain't gonna do that. We can easily do 3 hrs of our own stuff but we find it good to break it up every once in a while. In The Mau Mau Chaplains (our reggae band) we play almost all roots reggae covers. It's big big fun. We have some originals as well that are sprinkled in, but we're a party band. The best part is we get to live in both worlds because most of the guys in both bands are the same.