Am I being too sensitive & too cranky?

P. Aaron · #1 08-19-2009, 03:04 PM

OK,

I have switched to bass for my own pragmatic reasons, but I also gave up the guitar position which I loved and devoted hours & hours of lessons, practice & listening to, having over 25 years of playing and studying the various guitarists out there in the rock genre. (I also have 12 years as a rock drummer also under my belt)

I am now, with equal zeal going after the electric bass guitar including reading lessons, and the style study and hours of listening & observing the position deserves. Why do this? I enjoy it very much.

And, for self preservation, to be as good as I can possibly be. I even want my "off-nights" to be good.

SO we're doing Sweet Emotion by Aerosmith. No big deal really; But my complaint is this:

I spend the time to listen intently and nail the bass part. At rehearsal, the guitarist doesn't know how to play this rock staple. It's rock guitar 101. So I teach him, and ALSO end up showing the drummer the drumbeat that Joey Kramer plays as the song closes & fades out.

We get through the song after a few go-arounds. I also watched a number of You-Tube live versions prior to rehearsal to see the Tom Hamilton intro...just_to_make_sure I was geting it right. And I am! So I also worked out a harmonically played intro, and walked it through different octaves & positions.

The singer says, about my variations after I have taught the rest of the band the song (we weren't even playing the song at the time) says: "Do you have to do all that?"

I controlled my sudden desire to have him eat the peg-head of my P-Bass. But am I outta line for telling him that I was just being CURIOUS about working the song through my rig (which is at the rehearsal place) rather than the 6 inch practice amp I use at home?

The singer chuckles & laughs at the noxious sounds the drummer & guitarist make at rehearsal all the time, but gets all over me for doing my homework & beyond.

Am I too sensitive? Should I just shut up?

Our cover band gets decent local reviews, but I am convinced: they are lucky to have me.

DeluxeRed · #2 08-19-2009, 03:16 PM

Welcome to the "short bus" of the music world: electric bass. Enjoy!

JohnnyPustular · #3 08-19-2009, 03:17 PM

Not to sensitive, but probably over-qualified for that band. You shouldn't have to teach the others in the band how to play their parts.

I would find a band that has equal or better musicians than you. Otherwise, 1) you will come to hate your life, and 2) you won't develop as a bass player. Of course, you may develop very well as a middle school band teacher.

dave_p · #4 08-19-2009, 03:20 PM

you forgot "pretentious"

Sathington W. · #5 08-19-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyPustular

Of course, you may develop very well as a middle school band teacher.

Bingo.

If you have to be teaching half the band to play a classic rock staple, I think you should reevaluate your situation.

P. Aaron · #6 08-19-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyPustular

Not to sensitive, but probably over-qualified for that band. You shouldn't have to teach the others in the band how to play their parts.

I would find a band that has equal or better musicians than you. Otherwise, 1) you will come to hate your life, and 2) you won't develop as a bass player. Of course, you may develop very well as a middle school band teacher.

That's why I am taking reading lessons. I want to be able to take on more-diverse jobs that pay. I am suffering this, at the same time gearing up for a future beyond rock band bar-circut shows. We make decent money, but I am looking ahead.

We are good, but we could be great.

My dream gig is playing in a band where the skill level is so high, that I am the one who's worried whether I'll keep the job.

Rudreax · #7 08-19-2009, 03:42 PM

You have WAY too much knowledge to be wasting on these guys. I'm assuming they know about all your experience, and if anything they should be grateful you can help them.

Why not try going solo?

P. Aaron · #8 08-19-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudreax

You have WAY too much knowledge to be wasting on these guys. I'm assuming they know about all your experience, and if anything they should be grateful you can help them.

Why not try going solo?

Naw, not a solo guy. I am a role player. And I dig being in a working band...with anybody who gives a damn. It's just been these little comments from the singer and in spite of my trying to help, advise, and demonstrate, it's seems obvious to me that it's all forgetten by them the minute rehearsal ends.

They seem to be happy being decent, when very good to "great" is so close at hand. Camraderie is one thing, being a working pro, you can still have personality and be a fun person.

The other person in the band who's a listener and detail oriented is the keyboardist. I play little substitution games with him and he looks up & chuckles when he hears them. The other guys are...oblivious to it.

I get some relief playing to him.

KramerBassFan · #9 08-19-2009, 04:05 PM

I think you are over reacting.
I mean, if they are a "Play toooons of different songs" type of band, I wouldn't get TOO frustrated just because they didn't know ONE Aerosmith song.
Not everybody listens to Aerosmith, and Not Everybody Likes Aerosmith.
Now, If you are setting out to be a "Hard Rock band with lots of Covers" Then i might be a bit worried.
All in all, I wouldn't get TOO upset yet simply because your Band does not know ONE Aerosmith song.
However, if you have to teach them all everything on a repeated basis, then yes.
You may have a problem ahead of you.
Hope that helps.

P. Aaron · #10 08-19-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_p

you forgot "pretentious"

If I was 'pretentious' I would think I am better than they are.

They can play, they just choose to neglect the details that make talented people better.

We're talking rock 'n' roll here. Yeah, there's some skill level involved, and they have the skill. They fail to take that extra time to REFINE the parts that need refining outside of rehearsal. They don't PRACTICE. That's what's frustrating.

Through practice & refining my skills, perhaps I am 'better' than they are. I don't worry about that so much. I want US as a band to be better. I think I am doing my part.

They could do it, they just won't, or don't.

P. Aaron · #11 08-19-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KramerBassFan

I think you are over reacting.
I mean, if they are a "Play toooons of different songs" type of band, I wouldn't get TOO frustrated just because they didn't know ONE Aerosmith song.
Not everybody listens to Aerosmith, and Not Everybody Likes Aerosmith.
Now, If you are setting out to be a "Hard Rock band with lots of Covers" Then i might be a bit worried.
All in all, I wouldn't get TOO upset yet simply because your Band does not know ONE Aerosmith song.
However, if you have to teach them all everything on a repeated basis, then yes.
You may have a problem ahead of you.
Hope that helps.

See the post above.

KramerBassFan · #12 08-19-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

See the post above.

My apologies.. now i feel stupid

p0werslav3 · #13 08-19-2009, 04:22 PM

It may be the way you're explaining things to them. Some people get defensive when they perceive they are being "told" what to do.

Do you "tell" them what to do, such as: "you should/need to play it this way, that's the way Aerosmith plays it"

Or do you try "suggesting" a different approach, such as: "I was checking out how Aerosmith plays the song and it might be interesting try it this way if that's cool"

From the singers comment ("Do you have to do all that?") it almost sounds like he's accusing you of being a "know it all" and trying to teach the other members how to do their "job" as if they're "wrong"

Even if they're wrong, it's all in the approach.

Of course you may be doing the correct approach and the other members aren't listening, but it's hard to give an honest opinion without hearing their opinions of the situation.

Just my 2 pennies

FunkMetalBass · #14 08-19-2009, 04:42 PM

^Agreed. Approach. Approach. Approach.

If the idea is to cover the song exactly, then politely inform them of that. "Hey guys, can we try to get this song down exactly like Aerosmith? You all easily have the ability to play it, but it's just some refining I think we should work on to progress as a band."

"Good job. Sounded great. Might I recommend...?"

"I'll have to listen again, but I think there's a note or two that are a bit off in that riff. Come listen to it with me and lets see if we can figure it out together."

These are grown adults - they don't want to be told what to do like children. Instead you have to reiterate that you aren't looking down on their playing and that everything you're doing is solely for the purpose of taking the band to the next level. You want the band to be successful and to stand out from the rest.

If they don't share your goals, you may want to reconsider band mates.

P. Aaron · #15 08-19-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0werslav3

It may be the way you're explaining things to them. Some people get defensive when they perceive they are being "told" what to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

^Agreed. Approach. Approach. Approach.

I have demonstrated, attempted to politely explain, and try to patiently describe certain nuances in songs we do to the guys that give that particular song the character that the original artist does. This translates into (at least for me) a chance to learn a particular playing style and develope new techniques. But one has to take the time, outside of rehearsal (another peeve) to listen and LEARN it as well.

Perhaps I expect too much?

We are a rock band that plays covers. I am fine with that. It's not just that Sweet Emotion is in 'A'. Or that Joey Kramer does this little 'thing'. What I painstakingly try to point out are that those 'little things' are what make the song noticeable, and cue us as bandmates as to where in the song we are that help us keep it together. The audience deserves & likes those things as well.

I was lucky to have folks take the time to help me. But when I try to explain, it's like: "There he goes again..."

The keyboardist understands this, but being new, he's liked & respected, but I don't blame him for taking it easy. He has, on occasion corrected me, which I appreciate because I like getting things right.

I'll boil it down to this: It's already composed, recorded and easily obtainable. The original artist has already done most of the work. In some cases the song is even pleasant to listen to. If you got the gear, and the talent, how much harder should it be to listen to the damn song yourself & sort it out?

P. Aaron · #16 08-19-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KramerBassFan

My apologies.. now i feel stupid

No problem. I am cranky because this seems so easy to me.

But who in the hell am I?

Jim Campbell · #17 08-19-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

OK,

I have switched to bass for my own pragmatic reasons, but I also gave up the guitar position which I loved and devoted hours & hours of lessons, practice & listening to, having over 25 years of playing and studying the various guitarists out there in the rock genre. (I also have 12 years as a rock drummer also under my belt)

I am now, with equal zeal going after the electric bass guitar including reading lessons, and the style study and hours of listening & observing the position deserves. Why do this? I enjoy it very much.

And, for self preservation, to be as good as I can possibly be. I even want my "off-nights" to be good.

SO we're doing Sweet Emotion by Aerosmith. No big deal really; But my complaint is this:

I spend the time to listen intently and nail the bass part. At rehearsal, the guitarist doesn't know how to play this rock staple. It's rock guitar 101. So I teach him, and ALSO end up showing the drummer the drumbeat that Joey Kramer plays as the song closes & fades out.

We get through the song after a few go-arounds. I also watched a number of You-Tube live versions prior to rehearsal to see the Tom Hamilton intro...just_to_make_sure I was geting it right. And I am! So I also worked out a harmonically played intro, and walked it through different octaves & positions.

The singer says, about my variations after I have taught the rest of the band the song (we weren't even playing the song at the time) says: "Do you have to do all that?"

I controlled my sudden desire to have him eat the peg-head of my P-Bass. But am I outta line for telling him that I was just being CURIOUS about working the song through my rig (which is at the rehearsal place) rather than the 6 inch practice amp I use at home?

The singer chuckles & laughs at the noxious sounds the drummer & guitarist make at rehearsal all the time, but gets all over me for doing my homework & beyond.

Am I too sensitive? Should I just shut up?

Our cover band gets decent local reviews, but I am convinced: they are lucky to have me.

thats the way i would want to do covers,but most seem to want to do them their own way for good or ill.....lots are content to tweeze the melody and then jam on a riff or progression,which is not bad on its own as long as the players can pull it off,but i like the sound of live versions of the recorded songs better and jams sparingly.....

jruberto · #18 08-19-2009, 06:26 PM

it kind of depends. are the others not learning the parts because they can't or because they won't? actually, i guess that kind of doesn't matter. whether it's indifference or ineptitude, it doesn't sound like a very happy home for you.

is this band a "democracy"? do you have a leadership role (implicit or explicit)? is it just good times and bar gigs, or are there more aspirations? are the others "weekend warriors" or more serious? do you have a shared & agreed-upon "vision"? (i.e. play it "right" vs. play it "our way")

ask yourself those questions and then decide: 1) can i change these people? (just to save you some time, the answer is probably no) 2) am i willing to adjust my expectations of them? (doesn't sound like it)

i'm in a super-pro entertainment agency band (weddings, events, etc..), and i learn my flippin' parts. especially around the really well-known and well-loved songs (but even on the stuff i don't much care for). a james jamerson bass part? you are g.d. right i'm gonna learn it. i'm gonna *study* it. i have my selfish reasons for doing so, but 1) for the money i get on that gig, i better have my act together and 2) some of that stuff is sacred ground & i'm not gonna just fake my way through it.

if your work ethic & sense of integrity around the output of the band isn't in line with the other members' then i don't know how much patience i would have with that situation.

* and to the comments around being more polite around the advice/instructions: if anyone isn't grown up enough to accept some feedback without getting sore over it then maybe someone else is too sensitive/cranky..

Jazzdogg · #19 08-19-2009, 06:32 PM

IME, successfully working with other people, in any capacity, is all about managing your behavior and the expectations of others.

Sounds like the challenges you're experiencing may have as much to do with differences between your expectations and the expectations of your band mates as it has to do with your approach. Incongruity can breed discontent or foment powerful change; harness the energy instead of expending it on negative emotions.

P. Aaron · #20 08-19-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

IME, successfully working with other people, in any capacity, is all about managing your behavior and the expectations of others.

Sounds like the challenges you're experiencing may have as much to do with differences between your expectations and the expectations of your band mates as it has to do with your approach. Incongruity can breed discontent or foment powerful change; harness the energy instead of expending it on negative emotions.

I heard this saying once from of all people, the manager of a company that prepares NFL fields for televised games. It has stuck with me when I do the things I love, especially music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFL Lawn Dude

Finish like a pro

That's kinda been my approach. I may be impatient...at times sure. But it's not like I am trying to explain the abstract. The music we cover is already scored, recorded and easliy available for reference.