Am I being too sensitive & too cranky?

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

Why bother refining one's craft then?

So I am picky. Some aren't. What's wrong with an attitude of being as good as you can possibly be, every time it's required. My next job may come from such a performance...that to me is why, to a fault, I am probably hyper-critical.

I suppose it's my fault that others aren't.

What does playing one version of a relatively simple rock song, note for note, based on one recording, have to do with "refining one's craft."

When it comes to your own playing, do what you feel. If you really want to spend hours pouring over every single song for a cover band....do it. But....don't expect your band mates to have the same passion and don't bother critiquing them for the slightest of "mistakes." It unreasonable given the situation.

I play in a cover band. At any time, I'm expected to be able to play about 200 songs. I know about 100 by heart. The rest I play from chord charts. Do I play them all perfectly according to the record? Of course not. I hit the hooks, the basic structure and the groove. I've never had some bar skank come up to me at a gig and criticize me for missing some passing note.

Sometimes, even an "artist" has to be practical.

[jgbass]

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

Perhaps playing in a half decent gig is good enough for some. A good time is all they want. As a band however, I think we're so close to being really good. With just a little bit more work.

Developing that discipline, will I think, get us even better shows and more MONEY for our efforts.

Plus, the better you can learn a tune, the better you start to hear & learn all aspects of music.

Just do not get stuck on what you think are others' potential. These guys seem to be fighting discipline and seem to be OK with just having a good time and playing half decently. How do you think they will become more disciplined? It is not your job. They have to be really motivated and want to do it. And, for me, it used to take forever to really learn a tune, and I would still not "get" some of the finer points. I see that now, years later. I would personally be spending time looking at better opportunities. My 2 cents.

[hbarcat]

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

Naw, not a solo guy. I am a role player. And I dig being in a working band...with anybody who gives a damn. It's just been these little comments from the singer and in spite of my trying to help, advise, and demonstrate, it's seems obvious to me that it's all forgetten by them the minute rehearsal ends.

They seem to be happy being decent, when very good to "great" is so close at hand. Camraderie is one thing, being a working pro, you can still have personality and be a fun person.

The other person in the band who's a listener and detail oriented is the keyboardist. I play little substitution games with him and he looks up & chuckles when he hears them. The other guys are...oblivious to it.

I get some relief playing to him.

What you've posted here is a common occurrence. Bands are put together for casual reasons and after awhile you find there are different levels of musicianship and different amounts of ambition among the members. The last band I was with was this way - the lead guitarist and I each have 20+ years of experience and we are in the habit of playing our instruments every day putting in a dozen or so hours a week at home woodshedding. The drummer and the rhythm guitarist each have less than 5 years experience but they have other priorities that prevent them from touching their gear more than a hour or two a week.

The lead guitarist and I were always working out little licks and fills and "refining and perfecting" what we were doing whether it was learning how to properly play an arpeggio or hit ghost notes or we were improvising a brand new chord progression to lead the end of one song into the next one. Meanwhile the other two were struggling to remember if there were supposed to be two verses or three before the chorus comes in.

We ended up splitting the band up with the lead guitarist and I forming an acoustic duo that we now work on the side of our more serious projects, and the other guitarist quitting and the drummer recruiting a couple more casual players who had similar ambitions to his. Result: everyone is happy being with musicians who are compatible.

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by hbarcat

What you've posted here is a common occurrence. Bands are put together for casual reasons and after awhile you find there are different levels of musicianship and different amounts of ambition among the members. The last band I was with was this way - the lead guitarist and I each have 20+ years of experience and we are in the habit of playing our instruments every day putting in a dozen or so hours a week at home woodshedding. The drummer and the rhythm guitarist each have less than 5 years experience but they have other priorities that prevent them from touching their gear more than a hour or two a week.

The lead guitarist and I were always working out little licks and fills and "refining and perfecting" what we were doing whether it was learning how to properly play an arpeggio or hit ghost notes or we were improvising a brand new chord progression to lead the end of one song into the next one. Meanwhile the other two were struggling to remember if there were supposed to be two verses or three before the chorus comes in.

We ended up splitting the band up with the lead guitarist and I forming an acoustic duo that we now work on the side of our more serious projects, and the other guitarist quitting and the drummer recruiting a couple more casual players who had similar ambitions to his. Result: everyone is happy being with musicians who are compatible.

I tried to get a moment with the singer, since he's doing the sniping. No chance on gig night. But we rehearse regularly. I'll just have to throw it out there.

I did however, receive no less than a 1/2 dozen compliments on my bass playing from complete strangers. This has been the case for 4 gigs running now. I just do what needs to be done. I am not Pastorious, nor am I looking to be noticed (with the exception of my stage clothes). I just like that solid Tom Hamilton type rock bass thing.

I still made my share of mistakes...some caused by how cold they run the A/C at this club. Great for the drummer, bad for the string players.

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by jgbass

Just do not get stuck on what you think are others' potential. These guys seem to be fighting discipline and seem to be OK with just having a good time and playing half decently. How do you think they will become more disciplined? It is not your job. They have to be really motivated and want to do it. And, for me, it used to take forever to really learn a tune, and I would still not "get" some of the finer points. I see that now, years later. I would personally be spending time looking at better opportunities. My 2 cents.

I appreciate being reminded of this...I am in some ways resigned to this reality. At 49, I look back at much time I wasted not practicing. Nowadays, I sneak a half-hour here, & 20 minutes there, on the days I can't go for about 2 hours or more. There's so much music to learn.

We could be so good with just a smidge more effort.

[JohnnyPustular]

Here we go-- someone solved the problem and posted it in on Craigslist! Here is a collection of pro players looking to put a band together.

From Craiglist, Detroit Aug 23, 2009 (Parts in Green come from the original poster)

Maybe they should form the greatest band ever! (Detroit)
Date: 2009-08-23, 10:27AM EDT


I know this is a long post but from looking through these ads does anyone think these guys deserve each other?

1st post-Guitar

Frustrated singer/guitarist looking to start a project or join an established band. I offer lead vocals, lead/rhythm guitars, backing vocals or any combination of. I've been looking for a while and am beginning to wonder just what in the hell happened to Detroit music.

I'm not interested in playing cover songs, love songs, blues, classic rock, emo, screamo or frappuccino. I don't play in drop D, drop C or even drop Z. I'm not interested in tuning a half step down, half step up or even a half step sideways. I'm not interested in playing chunka-chunka riffs with one finger. I don't rap, scat, zap or crap. I do not sing like Eddie Vedder or The Cookie Monster. I am also not interested in people who say they are looking to jam but are unable to show up to our first meeting for one reason or another.
I am married and have a mortgage and kids to pay for. That means I am not in high school and am actually old enough to legally enter clubs in order to play shows.

What's more, I realized long ago that I am never going to be a glorified rock star and am happy just playing local shows. I cannot and will not get into a van in order to play to 10 people in Moosebreath Idaho on a Tuesday night. Been there, done that and it really does suck. Besides, I have to be to work the next day.

I am also more interested in having fun with friends than making money. That's why I have a day job. What an original concept.

Now that I've eliminated 95% of you guys, here's what I do offer. My main influences include Bad Religion, Bad Brains and lots of others, mostly Warped Tour styled bands. I also get into old school Metallica, Motorhead, etc. Call my style hardcore punk, progressive thrash metal or Ramones on crystal meth. If it's loud, fast and to the point I'm a happy guy.

I bring loads of live and studio experience with 2 tours under my belt. Blue collar work ethic, pro gear, pro chops and reliable transportation. I even have a PA! Again, what an original concept. You'll find I'm serious about playing music but more serious about just having fun. Contrary to the image you're creating in your head, I am actually a very laid back kind of guy. I approach bands with a team mentality and ask the others to do the same.

I have a practice space available or would be happy to come to you. Ann Arbor or Saint Clair Shores, I can make myself available for the right project.

Please drop me a line if you're interested. Feel free to drop me a line if you're not interested and just want to call me an ass.

2nd post-Keyboards

I was the long-term Inkvine keyboardist a few years ago

I believe in looking youthful and moving well on stage

I am only interested in joining a band that is truly professional in every way... Time - effective, not screwing around, gets down to business, and looks the part. Ideally, you already have some label interest or a plan to put out your own music.

I am influenced by Marilyn Manson, old Killers, Danzig, Sentenced, Depeche Mode, Keane (I don't play piano nearly that well, I am more mood-oriented and atmospheric)

I believe in a regular schedule and structure. I also believe that "having fun" is a lot less important than being focused and passionate.

Please only call if you have something unique and very well-written to offer. (248)321-9663. My time is precious, so if I don't get a good vibe, I'll be very quick to get off of the phone -- please don't take offense if this happens.

3rd post- Drummer and vocals


Who is really ready it dont take months to make a band that can play out.............. Im ready singer songwriter /drummer who is ready on the drums.. but i want to start my own band.. If you think your ready to go and can play hit me up im looking for drummer (must be as good if not better than me that means double kick) A guitar player who can listen to any song and play it.(no i dont want to play covers but "i can over 500 of them"). And a bass play who can play slap funk as well as pic or using just your fingers.. Im ready and creative and have a place to play.. If you listen to the what is being played now it dont take much'(lol)So if you can play and play like you love music. if you like rage against the machine and limp bisket tool rush if you play just about anthing and are ready. please feel free to call me 586-447=6373

I am a 15 year seasoned veteran vocalist. I really like the arrangements of the American standards that Michael Buble Performs.Yes i can sing them. This group will need proficient players at their instruments. It needs a SHARP jazz guitarist. an upright bass player, a KICK ASS PIANO player,two saxophones and two trumpets and i mean guys that can play!! I have rehearsal space PA gear and I got the vocal chops to back it up.Money gigs WILL be there once we get a few sets down. I will need someone to write charts for those who need them i dont write charts i sing, and better than most.the work will be worth it .I have been booked in the past by the Jack Grenier agency before in the casinos and the good paying outdoor festivals and they will jump all over this!! I also have a friend who is the talent coordinator at the oneida casino in Green Bay and i am guaranteed 3 night stints whenever i have something ready. I am a pro and here are some titles of his arrangements i wanna do:Ive got the world on a string,the summer wind. thats life. L-O-V-E, call me irresponsible, for once in my life, you get the jist. This is doable im just wondering if there are cats out there that wanna put in a little work for a big reward. i hope so! I have ZERO TOLERANCE for jazz elitist pricks who think they are Sam Butera or freddie Green.This is Craigs list and trust me you arent elite. I'm looking for nice guys with talent and social skills. if you dont have either of these attributes please get a real job.
Thank You

PS I AM NOT LOOKING TO DO ANYONES ORIGINAL MATERIAL THATS WHAT OPEN MIC NIGHTS AT COFFEE HOUSES ARE FOR GERSHWIN!
Thanks

4th post-Prima Donna vocals!


Hi I am like the post says...

An experienced female singer looking to form a Variety Band. I do have some descent P.A. equipment and have a great practice space.

Here's what I'm Looking for:

Lead Guitar Player:

Requirements.... Moderate self esteem with consideration for others, the ability to determine (by yourself) without the help of the band or the crowd, holding their hands to their ears in agony... That your just to damn Loud! The ability to sing harmony in key at least 1/2 the night. The abilty to go right into another song while the dance floor is still occupied and not have to make 9.3 minutes of adjustments to your guitar and or amplifier before moving to the next song.

The ability to come to practice prepared with no excuses why you couldn't get your part down! We (that would be the other guys in the band) don't care if you found out that your wife is a lesbian or your long lost drug addict sister was in town at a porn convention and asked you to hold her stash! All we care about (that would be the other guys in the band again) is that you come prepared to get the songs down and TIGHT, so we can book gigs before 2014!

Also this super special person must also be able to finish the night somewhat stable enough to: find his car in the parking lot after that particular gig!
Must not be an Idiot, drug addict, vacumn cleaner salesman, child predator or into sheep!

Bass Player Requirements: See Above

Drummer requirements: See Above

Keyboard Requirements: See Above

Rythym Guitar Requirements: Again See Above

Please note: If you can sing this would be an UNBELIEVABLE ASSET! I am looking to put a variety band together and this would mean well... Variety and not just me singing all night and you backing me up! This concept.... crazy as it sounds actually works! Un-beknown to most egotistical female singers!

LISTENING TO THE SAME SINGER SET AFTER SET IN MY OPINION IS JUST PLAIN BORING!

So let's review shall we? better yet break it down in a nutshell! Ok ready? here we go:

No Idiots, drug addicts alcoholics or sheep lovers! Check!

No Excuse makers! Check!

No Ego maniacs! Double check!!

Must know harmony! Check!

Considerate, trustworthy, dedicated! Check!

Has transportation! Check!

Learns tunes to the best of their ability Check!

Most importantly!!!! Here's the Kicker...... wait for it..... wait...... wait.......... Wants and desires to have a band that sounds pro, enjoys playing together, gets along, wants to Make Money, likes all types of music from newer country to motown to pop to rock to alternative to just about anything that packs a dance floor!

If this is you then by all means contact me and I will praise the great guitar gods in your name with a tear in my eye and a song in my heart!

If this is not you then... Please please don't contact me thinking your going to win me over and somehow change my way of thinking with your awesome rendition of some kind of wonderful with the 17.4 minute guitar solo!

Oh I know I said variety and nothing against the older standards that have been beat to death in every bar in town, and if there is a request we'd do it! But I would hope for your sake and mine that we wouldn't have to spend time practicing that. When I speak of variety i mean maybe very popular tunes that no one takes the time to learn or for that matter do right!

Anyways about me: I sing, I'm easy going, Never had an ego don't plan on getting one, happy to backup while you sing as well, look half way descent, when it's that time of the month don't take it out on the band mates. and most of all. love to play out sound pro and make money!

so gimme a yell. One more thing If I spelled something wrong, used improper punctuation or wutever... don't send me an email ! If your thinking about doing that then your an idiot and you should have read the requirements above!

Thanks for your time to read my long winded plea for some normal musicians to jam with!

all they need now is a bass player who thinks they deserve the world.


* Location: Detroit

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

Ann Arbor and Oakland County (were I now work about 35-40 shows a year) are 2 drastically different worlds for playing bar gigs.

Yeah... there is basically no such thing as cover gigs around Ann Arbor.

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

Is Ned's bookstore still there, just east of the water (phallus) tower?

Yep, just down the street from Tower Inn.

[Doubbler4]

well I say do not shut up. You are doing good. I think that you are going too fast. You expect too much from these people. Dont shut up, but go alittle slower

[Eilif]

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

...They seem to be happy being decent, when very good to "great" is so close at hand...

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

...Our cover band gets decent local reviews, but I am convinced: they are lucky to have me.

Dude, you've laid out the situation yourself. Clearly here's a group of guys that are happy doing what they are doing, and the band feels they are doing just fine.

You have a vision of hard work and excellence. They have a vision of having a good time and just enjoying the ride. Sure they're lucky to have a great bass player, but is your taking over practice actually helping the direction of the band or is it just stressing out a group of guys who just want a good time.

Sit down with them and discuss openly what each wants out of the band. Maybe they want to excell, but more than likely you will have to make the choice between leaving or going with the flow and enjoying the project for what it is.

Sorry, but this looks like a classic"...lead a horse..." situation.

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by Eilif

Dude, you've laid out the situation yourself. Clearly here's a group of guys that are happy doing what they are doing, and the band feels they are doing just fine.

You have a vision of hard work and excellence. They have a vision of having a good time and just enjoying the ride. Sure they're lucky to have a great bass player, but is your taking over practice actually helping the direction of the band or is it just stressing out a group of guys who just want a good time.

Sit down with them and discuss openly what each wants out of the band. Maybe they want to excell, but more than likely you will have to make the choice between leaving or going with the flow and enjoying the project for what it is.

Sorry, but this looks like a classic"...lead a horse..." situation.

My ...lucky to have me quote makes me look as though I believe my own hype. But that isn't the case.

I am just going to deal with it as long as I can, but I am not putting up with the singer's sniping. Just have to pin him down and find out what's wrong...with him.

[P. Aaron]

It was a strange Friday gig. I played well, and the singer, maybe sensing something was wrong was complimentary all night. I did not reply or have a chance to converse with him about my concerns. But this was a change.

Perhaps others in the band noticed and chimed in? I am not sure. I plan on getting this issue resolved. I am also watching and waiting for the opportunity to do so...discreetly, if possible.

Band relationships are...such interesting things.

Keep practicing I say. Your resume is being posted every time you gig.

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

If anyone is still follwing my lament here:

Yes.