Am I being unreasonable?

[Monkey]

I play a weekly club gig (reggae, funk, blues) with a couple of my best buddies. We have been playing this gig for about 4 years now, sometimes to a decent, excited crowd, and sometimes to empty chairs. Here is my dilemma...

One of my bandmates is a great sax and harp player, and has a great reputation in my town. He sits in with everybody and everybody loves him (myself included). Because he knows a ton of people and often sits in, we get a lot of people who show up to this gig expecting to sit in. I have no problem with people I know and respect, but a lot of young horn players show up and completely ignore the rest of us. Many of them are good, but they don't really contribute to what we do.

For example, we had a young kid ask to play sax. He played three or four songs, then asked to sit in on drums. He was good, but not outstanding. During his drumming, a buddy of his jumps up on stage and holds a cell phone to his ear so he can talk to someone about getting a ride home. I hit the roof, and caused a big scene. Talk about lack of respect!

My buddy the sax player says, "Hey, this is a casual gig, and not many people are here, so what's the big deal?!"

It is a big deal to me! This is our band and our gig, and I don't want to be running a "School for the Arts" for a bunch of kids.

Am I being unreasonable?

[ArmyPunkGuy]

no, kick him to the curb until he can agree to be a team player

[QORC]

I think that having people sit in is a band decision, and NO ONE should promise someone to sit in on SOMEONE ELSE'S instrument or position. It's rude. I wouldn't tolerate it, personally.

[morf]

Sitting in is just fine, but talking on the phone in the middle of a set? Thats a no-no in my book. If you want to sit in you better have a professional attitude coming with it.

[rarutz]

there should be so much more into an act than just an act. and people should be so much more sensitive about a musician's feelings. it's so personal. it's tough. everybody has an opinion and because everybody loves music everybody thinks they know something about it. and when they do know something they are music gods or something. those kids, it's just a competion for them. where is the fun and respect. only thing they know is make fun of other and take everything as a joke. music and especially a live act is no joke.
man, they got me started...

[Sundogue]

We never let anyone sit in...ever. With another band I'm in, it does depend on the gig and what we are doing with that gig. Sometimes we'll ask someone to sit in, but we never oblige requests.

That's what "open mic" jam nights are for.

Whenever someone asks to sit in we say "No, sorry but our manager won't allow it. It's just his policy."

Of course we don't have a manager, so he is never available to ask.

[Monkey]

Thanks for the responses. I would prefer that we only let a VERY select few sit in with everyone agreeing, but my buddy doesn't agree.

Oh, check this out.... At a gig last year, a bass player took out his bass and started talking to our sax player, then walked over to me and stood there looking at me expectantly, with a look that said, "So, where do I plug in?" I just stood there, and finally he asked me if he could use my rig. I asked, "Who said you could sit in?", and he pointed to my sax player. Then, my buddy comes over and whispers, "Oh, I forgot to ask you; do you mind? He's a cool kid," etc.....

We've talked about this many times, and he just doesn't understand my position. He is such a good guy and a good friend, that I haven't really laid down the law. Maybe I will have to....

[Lowtonejoe]

Originally Posted by Monkey

I play a weekly club gig (reggae, funk, blues) with a couple of my best buddies. We have been playing this gig for about 4 years now, sometimes to a decent, excited crowd, and sometimes to empty chairs. Here is my dilemma...

One of my bandmates is a great sax and harp player, and has a great reputation in my town. He sits in with everybody and everybody loves him (myself included). Because he knows a ton of people and often sits in, we get a lot of people who show up to this gig expecting to sit in. I have no problem with people I know and respect, but a lot of young horn players show up and completely ignore the rest of us. Many of them are good, but they don't really contribute to what we do.

For example, we had a young kid ask to play sax. He played three or four songs, then asked to sit in on drums. He was good, but not outstanding. During his drumming, a buddy of his jumps up on stage and holds a cell phone to his ear so he can talk to someone about getting a ride home. I hit the roof, and caused a big scene. Talk about lack of respect!

My buddy the sax player says, "Hey, this is a casual gig, and not many people are here, so what's the big deal?!"

It is a big deal to me! This is our band and our gig, and I don't want to be running a "School for the Arts" for a bunch of kids.

Am I being unreasonable?

Now think about this...

Your buddy sits in with everyone. Has for years...and he has a great rep. Everyone loves him including yourself.

Obviously he is an easygoing guy, has been around for a while and knows what he's talking about.

Take his advice and relax.

Look, it may have been a little embarrassing to you and I can see why. But if the gig was a relaxed, casual thing, don't worry about it.

You yourself said the kid did a decent job. It's cool that you let him play with you guys and to him it's probably even cooler to have had a chance to show off in front of his freinds. The only reason to throw a fit about this would be because your employer didn't like it. That's a whole different ball of wax.

Don't ruin a chance to make a good rep better. Do you want to become known as uptight or snobs?



Joe.

[rarutz]

i think good rep isn't too much if you don't get respect. soon we'll all be relaxed enough to play and speak on the phone in the same time. but hey that's just me...

[HolmeBass]

I think you should talk to the guy who was on the phone- explain to him that you're on stage to perform, and that doesn't involve talking on the phone. It's rude enough to even take a cell phone call in a restaurant/club without excusing yourself to the bathroom or outside- but to take a phone call *on-stage*? That's pure cluelessness in my book.

Now if your problem is really just with having so many people sit it, not really just with the one dude that was on the phone, then you have a different problem. It seems that the precedent for that gig is already set to let people sit in, and if you go against that you may come off as being too up-tight. But I don't think you were unreasonable to come down on that guy for taking a phone call on-stage.

[rarutz]

on a second thought, Joe is right. i was being a smartass myself. peace is always the way to go. as i wrote few posts before, this isn't a competion or a contest. there's nothing to prove and we don't teach anybody manners. we play, that's what we do. but still, boundaries are boundaries. could there be a middle way?

[Steve]

I gotta side with Lowtonejoe on that one.

The cell phone thing was stupid but, thats all part of getting experienced.

No blood, no foul.

[mambo4]

>The only reason to throw a fit about this would be because your employer didn't like it.
+1

When I read about the kid answering the phone My first reaction was "did the audience pay?" Seems to lack respect for the audience. If I pay for a show I damn sure better not see performers answering phones on stage, unless it's part of the act. If it was a free show, hey let the bum down the street sit in. If the audience pays, give them some value...

However, if another bassist comes to sit in and I don't even get told about it, that's kinda disrespectful...I'd be annoyed.

[Monkey]

Once again, thanks for the comments and opinions.

For me, it is a fine line between being too uptight and standing up for the respect that I feel I deserve. I am 45 years old and have been getting paid to play for over 25 years. I build my own instruments, run sound for the band, and tend to be somewhat self-effacing and quiet. I can put up with a lot of crap, but still feel that I should be respected as a musician and a person.

I wouldn't do a lot of the things that I have mentioned above, therefore I think I sub-consciously judge those that do those things. I have a Master's degree and a day job, and I think I expect a measure of professionalism, which you simply are not going to find in a bar full of drunks. Maybe I just need to chill out....

[ibnzneksrul]

When you (your band) are on stage, the stage is your domain. It belongs to you.

No one comes up there without your permission.

Period.

[rarutz]

Originally Posted by Monkey

I have a Master's degree and a day job, and I think I expect a measure of professionalism, which you simply are not going to find in a bar full of drunks.

unless you are a professional drunk. i might have been that few years back. now it's just a hobby...

[SBassman]

I think your band needs a discussion on this - outside of a gig.

[And personally, I wouldn't be able to support what the sax player is doing. Being relaxed about a gig doesn't mean you have to agree to running a talent show.]

[Ad Nauseam]

Hey Monkey,
Does "casual" mean that you don't get paid for playing? If you do get paid, is it based on your draw at the door?
I get paid to play to a bunch of drunks. Drunks put food in my belly and gas in my band's tour van. I've done it from one coast to the other and I maintain the same sense of professionalism rather I am playing to a room filled to capacity or just the bartender and soundguy.
My bands follow rules if someone sits in:

1. it had better be AFTER our set, or planned.
2. agreed by all the band members, ESPECIALLY if they are going to use someone else's equipment.
3. on a slow or dead night, where it wouldn't bother someone who paid to see us and instead got a comedy routine.

I play because I enjoy what I do. Until recently it WAS my day job... I hadn't needed a steady 9 to 5 in a year.
Music is no joke to me, and there is a fine line between being laid back and letting people take advantage of you. It sounds like your sax player doesn't recognize that line and allowed you to be disrespected on more than one occasion. What's worse, it sounds as if he isn't responding to your desire to be a bit more professional.
Even if your gig is just a hobby, you want to be able to enjoy it without being pestered by outside forces who don't take you or your band seriously. That's not to say don't have fun, playing is supposed to be fun, but draw the line somewhere and make sure that your band and your audience knows where it is.
Do it before you start to dread shows rather than anticipate them.

[Bluesdog]

Funny story about letting people sit in ; which we did on a regular basis with people we knew were good, anyway Mr. drummer's bro is in town for a couple days and plays some guitar and the drummer promises him a sit in.
he turns up at the gig and he sees the set list and says he'll play 'White room' with us , he's got no guitar , no amp and can't sing so I give up my gear to him and sing it , when we get to the lead break , he can't play it, in fact he doesn't play any lead, so we're all pissing ourselves laughing , very unprofessionally, but after that song , I took the guitar and publicly thanked him for that. the audience were pretty cool about it actually. I couldn't believe it when he comes back after that set break and wants to play another Number.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ad Nauseam

Hey Monkey,
Does "casual" mean that you don't get paid for playing? If you do get paid, is it based on your draw at the door?

We most definitely get paid (sorry; "casual" was the wrong word). We get a guarantee, and this gig is on a Wednesday night, with no cover. I make $65 for this gig, and often have weekend gigs or festivals. It is a nice supplement to my day job income.

We have been doing this Wednesday night gig for almost four years now, and I don't want to lose it. We have been starting later and later, and letting more people sit in, and while the club owner likes us, I think we need to take it more seriously. I think we should play our best whether there is one person or a hundred people there.