Am I Being Unreasonable?

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by two fingers

1) What does the guitar player think?
2) Was the New Year's Eve drummer just down for that jam or do you think he would join the band?

Those are your only two deciding factors from where I stand. If you have a willing drummer ready to join the band, and a guitar player ready to make the change too, this is a no brainer. Make the switch. It's like ripping off a bandage. Hurts for a second but the cut is all better. A month from now you will be wondering why you waited so long to make the change.

If the current drummer KNEW he had a problem, there would be a glimmer of hope. But if he doesn't even SEE it as a problem, there's no way to change him. It's no different from your singer's alcohol problem. Until HE realizes there's a problem, there's no way to help.

Life is too short to deal with the hassle of a lazy band member. I'm 41 myself. We're all grown here. If the old drummer hates your guts forever and ever after this, he was never a true friend anyway and he isn't a grown up. I have joined and left bands for decades. I have fired people. There's not a single musician I have played with in the past I wouldn't run up to meet if I saw them out.

Short version: You're not having any fun now anyway. Might as well make the change.

Wow. Thread was over at Post #2. Great answer!

Um, yeah that's a "+1" from me....

And, since you said the guitarist and the "new" drummer are down, this seems like a done deal. Just be sure to report back with the after-story... video if possible.

[Floyd Eye]

I absolutely would replace the drummer. I replaced my old drummer for less and he was a friend of mine. This ain't Romper Room man.

[BritFunk]

My friends,

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

And, since you said the guitarist and the "new" drummer are down, this seems like a done deal. Just be sure to report back with the after-story... video if possible.

After-story will follow for certain - we're hoping to get the deed done and over with this week-end so we can move forward.

Originally Posted by Marginal Tom

The bit about the drummer's wife suggests that a new band name might be in order.

I am waffling about the band name - we have nearly 200 "likes" for our Facebook page (which I hate to have to start again from scratch), but since the drummer originally suggested the band name I am thinking it would be kind of a jerk move to keep using it. I really don't want to do anything to seem like I am purposefully jabbing at the guy.

I'll let everyone know how it goes after the hammer drops. I really do appreciate the sounding board and all of the suggestions!

----
Kurt

[inthevelvet]

Originally Posted by jive1

Think of all the things about yourself that you would like to change and improve, and the obstacles you face doing it. Now, imagine trying to do that for another person......


IMO, IME, it's always easier to replace someone than change someone.

This! Changing someone's work ethic when they are in their 30's or 40's is, shall we say, unlikely at best...

[jmclearnon]

I've played with too many Bosos that have messed me around at gigs and stuff so i'm pretty straight if they are not up to scratch (in a nice encouraging way,people have done it to me and i'm better for it).

[ChrisB2]

Good luck, I know you aren't looking forward to canning him, but just remember, he's getting himself fired over all of his failures. If he were behaving properly, you would never do this. Remind yourself of this, and realize you're not being a bad guy.

Also, about the band name/facebook; 200 likes is a good start. I know he's a hothead, but depending on how this goes, you may consider just asking him if you can continue to use it. If he says no, or if asking is not looking like a good idea, then offer to pay him something for his share. The band name has some value; hard to put a price on, but it does have value, and he owns a share of that. So why not offer to buy him out? He's leaving regardless, so he has nothing to lose...

If he agrees to give it to you, or sell his share to you, then you have nothing to feel "jerk-move" about and you'll have your name with 200 likes and can go forward with a clear conscience.

Again, good luck!

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by BritFunk

I am waffling about the band name - we have nearly 200 "likes" for our Facebook page (which I hate to have to start again from scratch), but since the drummer originally suggested the band name I am thinking it would be kind of a jerk move to keep using it.

My feeling is, change the name if you must. But make this the last and only time.

Every time you change the band name, you run the risk of confusing people, and losing part of your hard-won audience - thus setting you back, and requiring more time and more work, just to get back to the position you had achieved already.

I think a covers band generally can get away with this more easily than can an originals band. At the least, a covers band typically has less to lose by changing the name.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice that you seem to be far more concerned with treating the drummer right, than he seems to be with treating you right. Isn't that always the way whenever dealing with an immature, self-absorbed, narcissistic bandmate?

MM

[malthumb]

Originally Posted by BritFunk

.....
I am waffling about the band name - we have nearly 200 "likes" for our Facebook page (which I hate to have to start again from scratch), but since the drummer originally suggested the band name I am thinking it would be kind of a jerk move to keep using it. I really don't want to do anything to seem like I am purposefully jabbing at the guy.

I'll let everyone know how it goes after the hammer drops. I really do appreciate the sounding board and all of the suggestions!

----
Kurt

Do you already have a useable band name ready? If so, you should have a plan to QUICKLY communicate to your FB followers that the name is changing and what it is changing to. Basically, hold their hands and walk them over to the FB page for the new name.

If you do not, ChrisB2 probably has suggested the best approach.

[Roadkill]

You can change the name of your facebook page once I think and keep all your "likes" - I was able to change one of mine.

[BritFunk]

My Friend,

Originally Posted by Roadkill

You can change the name of your facebook page once I think and keep all your "likes" - I was able to change one of mine.

THAT would be the best of all worlds. There is already a little buzz about us under the current name, but not so much as to make changing it problematic. Thanks so much!

----
Kurt

[BritFunk]

My Friends,

A quick update: being that everyone had a really crazy busy weekend, I shot out a Facebook message to the drummer yesterday afternoon that we would like to get together tomorrow (Tuesday) evening to talk about things.

Funny - since then, the drummer has been unusually quiet - Facebook shows that he *saw* the message, but no response. In fact, the only communication we have had from him in the past five days or so has been underhanded smart-aleck posts on Facebook directed at the guitar player and myself.

I will be SO glad when we have dropped the hammer and can move on. The longer this goes on the more juvenile he is behaving.

----
Kurt

[Roadkill]

BTW speaking of FaceBook pages - any owner can boot off the other owners and take over. I know of two cases where somebody got kicked out of a band but the band had been stoopid enough to make everyone an "owner" and they rushed off and "stole" the page and all the likes .

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by BritFunk

My Friend,



THAT would be the best of all worlds. There is already a little buzz about us under the current name, but not so much as to make changing it problematic. Thanks so much!

----
Kurt

Hmm... I would still want his permission to take over the likes, which technically he owns a portion of.. but that's just me. You know, if you change the name of the page and get the likes, you kinda swiped them from him...

[BritFunk]

My Friend,

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

Hmm... I would still want his permission to take over the likes, which technically he owns a portion of.. but that's just me. You know, if you change the name of the page and get the likes, you kinda swiped them from him...

I see your point of view and don't blame you one bit. That said, if we were a band that had been together for a longer time period and had been writing/playing originals I would probably be more concerned. Realistically, being that we are a cover band that had been together for just a few months, I guess I find it harder to take any perceived value of the "likes" quite so seriously.

I am kinda the "techie" one of the group, so I set up the page initially, gave everyone rights, took/uploaded the pics, and created the logo, so I guess I'm not keen on giving that all away.

I'll probably figure out which way to proceed with the band name/Facebook page thing depending on how big his hissy fit is when he receives confirmation that he is no longer involved in the project.

Thanks sincerely for the thoughts and viewpoints - I really do appreciate them!

----
Kurt

[ChrisB2]

Yeah, I can see it your way.

Good luck!

[bigntasty]

It sounds like tomorrow is the big night. I understand your situation as I've been involved in firing band members in the past as well (I'm sure many of us have!). It sounds as if your current drummer is already expecting the worst since he and his wife are badmouthing you on Facebook and he hasn't been responsive otherwise. It's tough when the problem member is a close friend of one or more of the other members, but at the end of the day you have to be able to separate personal friendship from the business side of the band. Everything will collapse if the drummer stays, and then you risk losing your guitarist, too.

And I agree; the worst reason to keep a band member in is so you can try and change them. Without their personal desire to do so, you're just spinning your wheels, delaying the inevitable and causing even more unnecessary friction.

I wish you the best!

[Hankenstein]

Life is short. Dump the 1st drummer. Move on.

[phillybass101]

Fire the bum, hire the Chum.

[BritFunk]

My Friends,

It's been a rough ride, but I think we're going to be OK.

We met with the drummer last night to discuss things. I tried to allow the guitarist the lead in things since they have such a long history, but he was having a hard time. I get to be the bad guy again. Ah, well - such is my lot in life.

I launched into things and the drummer still vehemently denied that anything was amiss. We talked about things, him talking in circles the entire time, giving us a thousand reasons to keep going as a group even though it was obvious the chemistry wasn't there. He expounded upon why he couldn't make time for practice, etc. It was a couple of hours of total nonsense, but at the end he swore he would order a second kit and work himself to death if necessary to get where he needed to be. He asked us to sleep on it before making any decisions, which we agreed to do.

Just a bit ago we received a Facebook message from him detailing that he had spent a lot of time after our conversation last night thinking about things, and essentially admitting that yeah, he realizes how long it would take him to get his chops back, if ever. He has a wife and a two-year old son, and they take priority (which is as it should be), and he thinks his days of playing out live are pretty much over (at least for the time being) - he wants to play strictly for his own enjoyment without the pressures of gigging. He even went so far as to give us his "blessing" to continue as a group in his absence, no harm, no foul, no hard feelings.

Everything worked out better than I had anticipated, at least on the surface - there is still the possibility he will be a bit upset once he sees we're continuing, but it won't be anywhere near the nastiness that could have erupted from firing him outright.

I hate to use the overused "all's well that end's well", but in this instance I think we did OK.

Again, I really appreciate everyone's willingness to share their thoughts and observations about the situation, as it really was something I hadn't encountered personally before. Thanks again!

----
Kurt

[denhou1974]

^ Awesome.

This is the way that all band discussions should go. Everybody got to air their piece and everybody listened to each others' viewpoints. The guy who shared a different goal accepted it and manned up (which is hard to get these days).

Glad it worked out for you.