Am I out of order?

Wraithwrider · #1 10-02-2009, 02:32 PM

It's no secret that I find our lead guitarist and singer difficult to work with. It's not just me, we all do.

During band practices he'll often say ' can I just do the solo'. I dread it because I find it difficult to work out where the bass comes in mid song.

Eventually I thought to myself, I learn the bassline and then I bring it to band practice, I wouldn't dream of using band practice to learn it as I feel that's down to me.

So I hinted in a band email that we should learn the solo's 1st and not use everyone else's time to do it.

Tonight, as per usual he says 'can I just do the solo again?'.

Well we do it and I say 'Dave perhaps we should work on that stuff by ourselves and not waste the band's time.

OMG was he pissed.

What do you think? Am I out of order on this?

Peter

Steve · #2 10-02-2009, 02:39 PM

Tactless maybe but not out of order.

Better than my respose which would probably have been along the lines of:
"Nobody on this enire planet gives a rat's fat a** about your solo but you. And that includes your momma. Practice at home."

El Beardo · #3 10-02-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Tactless maybe but not out of order.

Better than my respose which would probably have been along the lines of:
"Nobody on this enire planet gives a rat's fat a** about your solo but you. And that includes your momma. Practice at home."

Still a lot nicer than what I would've said tbh but I feel the same way.

DeluxeRed · #4 10-02-2009, 02:42 PM

I think so. Working out a lead (over other instruments, as opposed to a solo, without other instruments) can be very difficult to do, especially if you are not 100% faithful to the original work (in the case of covers).

Work out good rehearsal marks, like the beginning of the chorus before the lead, for those songs. Learn how to start there. That's not easy, but an important part of the job. Call it YOUR homework.

Work out how to record (parts of) the tracks without the leads so that the gp can work from those.

Watch out with that stuff. Sometime there'll be a break or bass lead or something that you need some extra work on, and everyone will be just thrilled to help you like you helped them...

Remember, you're all on the same team.

Wraithwrider · #5 10-02-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

I think so. Working out a lead (over other instruments, as opposed to a solo, without other instruments) can be very difficult to do, especially if you are not 100% faithful to the original work (in the case of covers).

Work out good rehearsal marks, like the beginning of the chorus before the lead, for those songs. Learn how to start there. That's not easy, but an important part of the job. Call it YOUR homework.

Work out how to record (parts of) the tracks without the leads so that the gp can work from those.

Watch out with that stuff. Sometime there'll be a break or bass lead or something that you need some extra work on, and everyone will be just thrilled to help you like you helped them...

Remember, you're all on the same team.

I hear what you say, I truly do and yes I acknowledge there a valuable learning curve for me in this. I haven't gone through a whole catalogue of other frustrations and quite unbelievable behaviours that this guy has. He set up the band though and we all acknowledge that but he conjures incredulity at ever step of the way

But, a good point, it will develop my skills too.

DeluxeRed · #6 10-02-2009, 02:59 PM

Sure he's not Streisand in drag?

Jefenator · #7 10-02-2009, 03:02 PM

"Waste the band's time" might be a loaded way of putting it. That might ruffle even my feathers (but I'd probably just deal with it and stay focused on the task at hand).

But IMO it's not at all out of line to make suggestions for a more efficient rehearsal. (Especially if you've got 10 tunes left to run and someone has to leave soon...) If someone else still thinks it's really important to do something over, they can just say so and we'll do it.

I care a lot about efficiency and one of my biggest pet peeves is wasting my very scarce time helping other players do their homework.

But if you're having trouble starting up the bass part mid-song, IMO that's not necessarily the most valid reason to not work on a section. Maybe this could be an opportunity for you to sharpen your ears more, and/or for the other members to work up their song form jargon & count-ins. I mention this because a good productive rehearsal can involve a lot of starting & stopping & skipping around IME.

Hope it all works out!

Kirkowitz · #8 10-02-2009, 03:09 PM

I agree that that may have been a heavy handed way to word it.
Maybe try a more constructive suggestion, like recording the practice so he can work on his solos at home over a backing track of the live band? You may have tried this already....

RicPlaya · #9 10-02-2009, 03:34 PM

My band works on it at home and brings it to practice. Guitar solos included..these originals or covers? Covers no excuse do it to the CD at home, originals I can see where he may need some time with the group to work out the solo. Maybe record the pratices so he can work on it at home or at the end of pratice have the band play that part over and over again and allow him to work out his solos.

Rattman · #10 10-02-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraithwrider

It's no secret that I find our lead guitarist and singer difficult to work with. It's not just me, we all do.

During band practices he'll often say ' can I just do the solo'. I dread it because I find it difficult to work out where the bass comes in mid song.

Eventually I thought to myself, I learn the bassline and then I bring it to band practice, I wouldn't dream of using band practice to learn it as I feel that's down to me.

So I hinted in a band email that we should learn the solo's 1st and not use everyone else's time to do it.

Tonight, as per usual he says 'can I just do the solo again?'.

Well we do it and I say 'Dave perhaps we should work on that stuff by ourselves and not waste the band's time.

OMG was he pissed.

What do you think? Am I out of order on this?

No... you did just fine. I remember trying to work out a lead guitar solo in the studio last year with the producer of all people. Same thing.. frayed nerves and embarrassment for me personally. It happened one more time.. then I slammed the brakes on myself. I never went back to the studio again without a completely polished, worked-out guitar or bass solo ready to 'keep' on the 2nd or 3rd take. Sometimes learning the HARD way is the BEST way.. for me, that was being embarrassed when I wasted the producer's time... A good, humbling experience that now pays dividends in efficient time management.

. . . .

singlemalt · #11 10-02-2009, 03:47 PM

Okay, we might loop the solo a few times for our guy, but the emphasis for everyone else would be to milk it for dynamics and nail the in and out. Give him something to fly over. But we all get along. They would and do, do the same for me, or the keys player.

If he's just a pud in every way, work on your chops, get the exposure this situation offers, and keep you eyes open for better things. If he's really good, and still a pud, it might be worth sticking around and being picky about what comes next.

I've learned tons working for difficult people, now I with nice folks and I got to keep everything I learned, plus all the cash I earned.

Love to hear about ego weirdness, so lets see what else he does! Get it off your chest, you'll feel better.

jaywa · #12 10-02-2009, 03:59 PM

He needs to work on his leads on his own time, not the band's.

Same deal with singers and their lyrics, etc.

Band practice is exactly that... practice as a band. Nothing grinds me more than sitting around for half a practice while the guitarists argue over what the chord progression is cause neither of them managed to work it out on their own. If I'm in a band where too much of that happens, I usually don't stay in the band very long or else I just quit coming to practice.

Besides, the song is not about just the lead. The lead needs to be practiced in the context of the whole song. If the lead is smokin' but the groove underneath is lame (or the guitarist is botching other parts of the song that aren't the lead), then you're just another average band with a decent lead player.

jive1 · #13 10-02-2009, 04:09 PM

The only excuse I could see is if the guitar had to play a solo for a cover that's transposed in a different key. He may need to make sure his fingerings and stuff are tight with the band, since the CD would be in a different key and hard to practice with.

bassplayer8953 · #14 10-02-2009, 04:20 PM

Nothing about playing in a band tic's me off like individuals trying to learn their parts on the spot. That's not what practice is for; we get together to rehearse our (already learned) parts for playing out live.

A player who doesn't do his homework, comes to practice unprepared, and expects everyone to stand by while he half-azzes his way through whatever he's trying to do has no respect for the time...and patience...of the others in the band. Says a lot about the person, IMO...

...besides, anything he picks up with a bunch of band-mates waiting for him will probably be forgotten the minute he packs up his instrument. (something I've learned being in a band with someone like this; I won't do it again)

Wraithwrider · #15 10-02-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by singlemalt

Okay, we might loop the solo a few times for our guy, but the emphasis for everyone else would be to milk it for dynamics and nail the in and out. Give him something to fly over. But we all get along. They would and do, do the same for me, or the keys player.

If he's just a pud in every way, work on your chops, get the exposure this situation offers, and keep you eyes open for better things. If he's really good, and still a pud, it might be worth sticking around and being picky about what comes next.

I've learned tons working for difficult people, now I with nice folks and I got to keep everything I learned, plus all the cash I earned.

Love to hear about ego weirdness, so lets see what else he does! Get it off your chest, you'll feel better.

Okay, reminds of another frustrating practice habit that he can't overcome despite our repeated fairly gentle 'hints'. Between each number we have the shuffle of paperwork (he doesn't learn his lyrics and needs a music stand with chords and words), the playing of random chords and much tuning and mic warbling where everyone has to be quiet despite his inline tuner. We are always waiting around for him between numbers. Given a gig he's the same, very amateurish imho.

He also apologises to the audience for his poor abilities when introducing the band. This to me is a major mistake as what you're really doing is saying 'we're crap' (I'm not) and if you enjoy our music you obviously have no taste. Despite politely talking to him about this he persists.

If anyone needs an ageing but eminently sexy Brit hippy bassist, keen to have loadsa fun a pm will do it

Wraithwrider · #16 10-02-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassplayer8953

Nothing about playing in a band tic's me off like individuals trying to learn their parts on the spot. That's not what practice is for; we get together to rehearse our (already learned) parts for playing out live.

A player who doesn't do his homework, comes to practice unprepared, and expects everyone to stand by while he half-azzes his way through whatever he's trying to do has no respect for the time...and patience...of the others in the band. Says a lot about the person, IMO...

...besides, anything he picks up with a bunch of band-mates waiting for him will probably be forgotten the minute he packs up his instrument. (something I've learned being in a band with someone like this; I won't do it again)

Perceptive post.

G00D+~VIBES · #17 10-02-2009, 04:33 PM

Oh the classic dichotomy between band "practice" and band "rehearsal"

**Thor** · #18 10-02-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

Sure he's not Streisand in drag?

I guarantee you I am the only poster here that got this reference.

Wraithwrider · #19 10-02-2009, 04:39 PM

And I thought I 'got' the reference, and I'm a limey

jaywa · #20 10-02-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wraithwrider

Okay, reminds of another frustrating practice habit that he can't overcome despite our repeated fairly gentle 'hints'. Between each number we have the shuffle of paperwork (he doesn't learn his lyrics and needs a music stand with chords and words), the playing of random chords and much tuning and mic warbling where everyone has to be quiet despite his inline tuner. We are always waiting around for him between numbers. Given a gig he's the same, very amateurish imho.

He also apologises to the audience for his poor abilities when introducing the band. This to me is a major mistake as what you're really doing is saying 'we're crap' (I'm not) and if you enjoy our music you obviously have no taste. Despite politely talking to him about this he persists.

If anyone needs an ageing but eminently sexy Brit hippy bassist, keen to have loadsa fun a pm will do it

Sorry to say this, but your "leader" is a controlling a**, a prima donna, lazy and unprofessional to boot. Sounds to me like you can do better. Much better.