am i in the wrong ?

[scronus]

My band played its largest show on Saturday with 3 other bands that are all good friends of mine whom I respect musically and I had a hand in booking for the show . My singer and his girlfriend booked the venue I booked the bands basically and we were to slit our door take 4 ways equally .We had a great turnout all my friends bands played great and the crowd and club loved it Until we got on stage and while serviceable to the weekend warrior or laymen put on a horrible show .
I have quit the band today because of ineptitude in management and being embarrassed at how we sound on stage after a year and a half of playing together .No matter what approach I take or how much energy I put in no consistent progress seems to be made .
After drawing in over 200( that is pretty damn good for a local Austin show ) people to mid sized local venue at 10 dollars a head .All 4 bands were given 237 dollars to split for the night .Which resulted in verbal conflict and one of the bands being permanently banned from the premises .
I had warned the singer and his GF(booking agent ) that the venue was notorious for springing up frivolous costs .I was told to rest assured that there would be no funny business and everyone would come out ahead . After 4 or 5 times mentioning these fears I subsided and figured they had at least checked it out out of curiosity.
Long story longer 2 of the other bands were using hired guns at 75 bucks a pop and one of the band rented a nord for 85 dollars for the night so they are out 95 dollars for the night . The opening band had to wait around for 4 and half hours to get 60 bucks and the band that was banned from the club was given our share of the money to try and calm them down (didn't work )
I know this is a hard world and making money doing this is not my absolute but I believe in proper compensation as well .And these bands are my friends and I brought them in on this gig so it reflects poorly on me as a person.And that is not how I want to do business .
I have always stayed away from booking shows myself and dealing with club management because of my temperament and my tendency to become emotionally invested and feel too strongly responsible to react rationally when things go wrong .And the one thing this singer can do is book shows at great venues(but for little or no money ) does the exposure outweigh the negatives, should I try and make amends and continue to grind it out with a band that has the potential to be good but not the drive and hopefully get noticed by a better band or artist ? Or cut my losses and move on to find more professional level musicians ?

[modulusman]

Spell check is your friend.

[WayneS]

Also correct punctuation and grammaticals will make it much easier to wade through your post.

[Herrlster]

Wow, I want to reply but I don't want to get another infraction.

[OtterOnBass]

So each band received $237? Was this different from the deal you had worked out with the venue? (i.e. did they say you'll earn ~45% of the door charge?) Did the banned band usually earn more on 4-band tickets, or were they expecting a larger percentage of door profit?

EDIT: I see that each band made $60. That sucks compared to the profit you brought in ($2000 on cover charges alone!!!). Did you have a payment agreement with the venue?

If you don't feel comfortable doing the booking, either find some way to change your attitude about it or don't do it. You gave away your band's earnings, so it sounds like you tend to want to please people despite the cost. Maybe this is a role that is better left to others in the band.

[cassanova]

Originally Posted by scronus

I have quit the band today because of ineptitude in management and being embarrassed at how we sound on stage after a year and a half of playing together .No matter what approach I take or how much energy I put in no consistent progress seems to be made.

Sounds to me like you did the right thing.

After drawing in over 200( that is pretty damn good for a local Austin show ) people to mid sized local venue at 10 dollars a head .All 4 bands were given 237 dollars to split for the night .Which resulted in verbal conflict and one of the bands being permanently banned from the premises.

Not really your problem. That's that bands particular problem to deal with.

Long story longer 2 of the other bands were using hired guns at 75 bucks a pop and one of the band rented a nord for 85 dollars for the night so they are out 95 dollars for the night . The opening band had to wait around for 4 and half hours to get 60 bucks and the band that was banned from the club was given our share of the money to try and calm them down (didn't work )

Again, this isn't your problem to worry about.

I know this is a hard world and making money doing this is not my absolute but I believe in proper compensation as well .And these bands are my friends and I brought them in on this gig so it reflects poorly on me as a person.And that is not how I want to do business.

should I try and make amends and continue to grind it out with a band that has the potential to be good but not the drive and hopefully get noticed by a better band or artist ? Or cut my losses and move on to find more professional level musicians ?

Run like the wind and find a better band that has the same or similar goals as you.

[scronus]

It was poorly communicated and planned from the get go .No contract was singed except by the booking agent .I agree with you on all fronts I need to be able to be more involved with the business side of future projects .After the fact the figure of 25% was kicked around but you do the math we barely got 10 %.

The nail in the coffin for me is we had to agree to not play for 2 weeks prior and after and the band wants to do this again in February. Boggles the mind

Originally Posted by OtterOnBass

So each band received $237? Was this different from the deal you had worked out with the venue? (i.e. did they say you'll earn ~45% of the door charge?) Did the banned band usually earn more on 4-band tickets, or were they expecting a larger percentage of door profit?

EDIT: I see that each band made $60. That sucks compared to the profit you brought in ($2000 on cover charges alone!!!). Did you have a payment agreement with the venue?

If you don't feel comfortable doing the booking, either find some way to change your attitude about it or don't do it. You gave away your band's earnings, so it sounds like you tend to want to please people despite the cost. Maybe this is a role that is better left to others in the band.

[baalroo]

Find a different venue that doesn't rip-off the talent... or the customers. $10 cover is way over the top IMO for an "all locals" show, here the standard for an "all locals" show is $3, $5 if it's a benefit show or something. Most of the venues do a "pay to play" but the charge is only approx. $100-$150 so as long as 50 people show up you're covered (if you can't pull 50 people why even play a show?), everything else goes straight to the bands.

[scronus]

Austin while having the label of "live music capital of the world" is a very hard city to attract a consistent crowd and make money in .There are over 135 local venues and 1750 bands operating ,in the metro area on a consistent basis .the majority of bars are now trying to book bands for 3 hour spots from 8 to 11 then doing DJ stuff till 2 (the DJ's all spin really bad 80s music ) the average pay on Austins 6th street is $150 ,the show motioned above was at a nationally known Austin landmark .
I know I'm in an over saturated market but this is becoming disheartening

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by scronus

My band played its largest show on Saturday with 3 other bands that are all good friends of mine whom I respect musically. I had a hand in booking for the show.

My singer and his girlfriend booked the venue and I booked the bands. Basically we were to split our door take 4 ways equally .

We had a great turnout all my friends bands played great and the crowd and club loved it Until we got on stage and while serviceable to the weekend warrior or laymen put on a horrible show .

I have quit the band today because of ineptitude in management and being embarrassed at how we sound on stage after a year and a half of playing together .No matter what approach I take or how much energy I put in no consistent progress seems to be made .

After drawing in over 200( that is pretty damn good for a local Austin show ) people to mid sized local venue at $10 dollars a head, all 4 bands were given 237 dollars to split for the night.

This resulted in verbal conflict and one of the bands being permanently banned from the premises. I had warned the singer and his GF(booking agent ) that the venue was notorious for springing up frivolous costs.

I was told to rest assured that there would be no funny business and everyone would come out ahead . After 4 or 5 times mentioning these fears I subsided and figured they had at least checked it out out of curiosity.

Long story longer, 2 of the other bands were using hired guns at 75 bucks a pop and one of the band rented a nord for 85 dollars for the night so they are out 95 dollars for the night . The opening band had to wait around for 4 and half hours to get 60 bucks and the band that was banned from the club was given our share of the money to try and calm them down (didn't work )

I know this is a hard world and making money doing this is not my absolute but I believe in proper compensation as well. And these bands are my friends and I brought them in on this gig so it reflects poorly on me as a person. And that is not how I want to do business .

I have always stayed away from booking shows myself and dealing with club management because of my temperament and my tendency to become emotionally invested and feel too strongly responsible to react rationally when things go wrong.

And the one thing this singer can do is book shows at great venues(but for little or no money ).

Does the exposure outweigh the negatives?
Should I try and make amends and continue to grind it out with a band that has the potential to be good but not the drive? And hopefully get noticed by a better band or artist ?

Or cut my losses and move on to find more professional level musicians ?

Question: Why would you put your name/reputation on the line by getting your friends booked into a club that has a bad reputation for screwing the musicians?

Since over 200 people attended/paid the door was over $2000. What was deducted from the door to arrive at $237? The bar was getting money from alcohol sales, so what expenses were they covering with the $1,800 they screwed you out of?

Without a contract, you guys are screwed.

IMO, I would move on.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by scronus

...we had to agree to not play for 2 weeks prior and after

What's this have to do with anything? What's the purpose?

Why would the band agree to this? Why would the club include this as part of the agreement?

[Intune]

I have quit the band today because of ineptitude in management and being embarrassed at how we sound on stage after a year and a half of playing together.

Who is/was your manager? One sucky night & you're packin' in on 1.5yrs work?

I was told to rest assured that there would be no funny business and everyone would come out ahead.

WHAT was the exact "agreement/club terms" for that gig? We get the door. You want some % of "our" door? We want some % of your bar proceeds. Some venues charge a merch %. Did you get food/drink comped?

This resulted in verbal conflict and one of the bands being permanently banned from the premises.

Was the band banned (say that a few times quickly) because they stood their ground on the promised $%? If so, that club owner can KMA. I'd never darken his doorway again, much less play there.

[RustyAxe]

(what the hell is up with all the English professors?)

Time to have a good heart to heart with the other band members. We don't use a booking agent, they can book us a $100 gig in East Crotchrot, take $15 for their 5 minutes on the phone, and leave us to worry about making a profit traveling 100 miles each way and eating up 8 hours of time. I'd rather play for free at a local open mic night.

It's hard to make a buck these days. Our band did a four hour gig (!) a week ago, and we netted $70 apiece. Yeah, that'll put food on the table, huh?

In my band (we're geezers, hell at 55 I'm the "kid" in the band) we have lots of experience, and we joke about booking gigs that we'll have to save up for. That said, we don't. One of our members has a tendency to accept nearly anything offered to us, but the others are more level headed and know how to "just say no".

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by baalroo

Find a different venue that doesn't rip-off the talent... or the customers. $10 cover is way over the top IMO for an "all locals" show, here the standard for an "all locals" show is $3, $5 if it's a benefit show or something. Most of the venues do a "pay to play" but the charge is only approx. $100-$150 so as long as 50 people show up you're covered (if you can't pull 50 people why even play a show?), everything else goes straight to the bands.

If you have to pay-to-play why even do a show.

[AlembicPlayer]

the club made you sign(?) agreement to not play in the area two weeks prior and after the gig...which is pretty common for big acts.

and you didn't use a contract to protect yourself and your mates?

there it is.

[tyrelnorth]

You took the right approach. I just stopped gigging for about a year altogether.

[iriegnome]

Don't let the venue charge at the door. If you are renting a venue, have your own tickets made (or whatever) and pay for the room yourself. Have your own door guy, take your own tickets and pay everyone accordingly. If your take at the door was only 10%, then everyband got exactly what was supposed to be given. If you were supposed to get the full door, then you got ripped and I would start to look for ways to bring justice to the world.

[AlembicPlayer]

I wish I had a nickel for every band that got "ripped off" by a club

and

I wish I had a dime for every band that says" we don't and won't use a contract for these small club gigs" because the club is small and won't hire us if we try to use contracts.


funny thing is, these clubs make you agree to things, and they don't have to agree to anything in return.

time to run our bands as a business, the same way the clubs do.
protect yourself and your mates.
Teach these clubs how to do business with us.


to the OP -
you were able to draw 200 with your approach..that's great!
don't give up, just get your "business skills" up to the task and try again!

[cassanova]

Originally Posted by AlembicPlayer

I wish I had a nickel for every band that got "ripped off" by a club

and

I wish I had a dime for every band that says" we don't and won't use a contract for these small club gigs" because the club is small and won't hire us if we try to use contracts.


funny thing is, these clubs make you agree to things, and they don't have to agree to anything in return.

time to run our bands as a business, the same way the clubs do.
protect yourself and your mates.
Teach these clubs how to do business with us.

+1. Its always best to protect yourself and make sure everything is covered. If the club won't sign a contract then don't play there. Unless of course you wanna take the chance of being ripped off or overworked and underpaid at the same time.

[4bpauly]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

What's this have to do with anything? What's the purpose?

Why would the band agree to this? Why would the club include this as part of the agreement?

this is common for some venues... it "ensures" a better draw..depending on the size of the town, it makes sense... better 200 people out to 1 show, then 50 people out to 4 shows... that's the mentality, anyways.