Another "what would you do in this situation?" thread

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Hi everybody. This is my first post in this sub-forum.

OK, here's the scenario: The owner of the tropical music band I work with decided to record some original material created by one of his cousins, a talented tropical music composer. That guy (the composer) doesn't know anything about music theory and arranging, so the band owner put me in charge of the arrangements for the wind section. The composer sent me demo recordings of his songs with him humming the basic ideas and I'm making them sound the way a typical Salsa/Merengue tune is supposed to do. Also added some minor ideas of my own.

And here's the awkward situation: The owner of the band, who is the lead trumpet player as well, wants to record all trumpet tracks for the songs. What makes this situation uncomfortable is:

1. That guy is an awful musician. While I agree he has a nice trumpet tone, his timing is simply horrible and he hardly can manage the instrument's upper register (a mandatory skill for a lead trumpet player).

2. That guy is stubborner than a donkey. I don't think he will accept calling a competent player to record trumpet parts.

The composer, who is also the record producer, asked me to be present at the wind instruments' recording sessions since, as the arranger, I know exactly how the parts are supposed to sound. While I don't criticize the band owner's ineptitude (all of us have our own weaknesses), both his stubbornness and not admitting his own limitations drive me mad. Besides, he's on a budget and he doesn't want to pay external musicians (as a band member, I'm doing this job for free AFAIK). I want to see his face after seeing the studio time bill, which is going to be A LOT if he doesn't change his mind. That's not my business, of course, but I want these recordings to be made the best possible way and that guy is putting a lot of stress and anger on me with his way of thinking. BTW, one of my band mates suggested him to call some outsiders for the recording and the guy almost hit him for that.

BTW, I want to share with you one of the demo recordings sent by the composer with my brass arrangement added on top (roughly played by the Finale MIDI Orchestra). The lineup is three trumpets, two trombones and one baritone sax. That's not the live band's lineup, but the best for a modern Salsa recording. There's also a short slap bass riff that I came up with during the process, and I included in the recording (also a rough take) just for the sake of not forgetting it later. BTW, one of the arrangement's most demanding trumpet parts -for that guy, at least- happens at that point. Click here to hear the demo.

So, how would you handle this? I simply can't assume the position of "I'm not spending a dime on this, so it's his problem". Thank you in advance for your input!

[LaklandBass]

You could always pitch a session trumpet player by pointing out the whole studio time thing. Perk up his ego by saying "you have so much more important things in this project to worry about, let someone else learn the parts since whatever we pay them will be washed by how quickly they lay the tracks hence less studio cost."

[Randall]

Sometimes you have to give "someone enough rope to hang themselves" before they come to a realization. If the guy is that violent let him burn the cash to get the parts right.

P.S Now if you were the owner of the band (or producer) that is a different situation where you would bring in the pro session guy.

[PJSShearer]

You could play him the demo, then maybe the penny will drop and he'll realise he's not up to the job. But if he's a stubborn as you say he is, he might not get it then.!!.

Then you need to go with Randall and give him enough rope to hang himself, let him get to the studio and after he hears the playbacks he might get it then!!.

On the other hand, I found out the hard way that when writing charts you have to take the competence (or otherwise) of the musicians that are going to have to play the piece into account!!.

[Munjibunga]

Don't you have any software that will make him sound like Doc Severinsen?

[sonic assassin]

let him spend the money and take forever to do it. do all you can to make it sound good. edit, add midi tracks, process, effect, quantize, whatever. if it cant be saved, its not your problem. if you did all you could do and the guy insisted on using his tracks, then thats what goes on.

if he goes through all that and realizes he cant do it, a session player will be brought in. its not your money, is it?

people like that are either replaced later or deal with their bad tracks going on records and paying for all the time it took. they either get better or keep being proud and awful.

i played in a band where i played guitar AND sang better than both guitar players. id write parts for songs, but i never played them on record. it wasnt my place. i never suggested it. they never offered.

same with the band im in now. i play guitar for the band and can play better than the bassist. definitely more consistent. i co-wrote all the songs and a lot of the parts hes playing. yet.. its not my place, so i dont insist that i should do it, even though it would take about an hour less time per song. fortunately, im the studio, the producer, the engineer, and the editor, so its my problem only.

[mambo4]

"owner of the band" = boss, as far as I'm concerned.
Professionally, you must do what the boss wants, with whatever tools the boss gives you, and try to make work, and leave your own ego out of it.

Why not write a simple trumpet part appropriate to his skill level?
A good artist can work with oil paint or crayons, and still make something beautiful...

On the other hand, you ain't getting paid for it, so it's not a strictly pro situation, and maybe he's just getting his money's worth...

[StuartV]

Man, Alvaro, that Finale Orchestra is TIGHT!

The bass riff sounds cool, too!

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

So, how would you handle this? I simply can't assume the position of "I'm not spending a dime on this, so it's his problem". Thank you in advance for your input!

In that case, if you're not getting paid for the arranging work that you did, tell him your "pay" is that you insist on having him get a session player to lay down the track. He can lay his version down, too. And then he can decide which one to use in the final mixdown. But, he's either got to pay you for the work you did or he's got to pay a session player to lay down the track.

If he pays you, then take the money and wash your hands of it. (Be sure and set your fee higher than what a session player would charge for an hour or two of his time ). If he opts to pay the session player, he probably won't want to spend the extra money for the studio time for himself to try and do it.

If he opts for neither, then don't give him the horn arrangement. You wrote it. It's your property to do with as you will.

[StuartV]

Originally Posted by mambo4

"owner of the band" = boss, as far as I'm concerned.
Professionally, you must do what the boss wants, with whatever tools the boss gives you, and try to make work, and leave your own ego out of it.

If he's not getting paid for his arranging work, then ain't nobody his "boss".

[odin70]

Are you going to record with the axe bass?

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by odin70

Are you going to record with the axe bass?

I seriously thought of it, especially after upgrading its stock electronics, just for the sake of proving that the Axe bass is not a POS. But right now I'm in "torrid honeymoon" stage with my Kubicki Ex Factor, which has a tone to die for.

Regarding writing a simpler arrangement, I'm just trying to follow the current trend. If you compare it with the most current Salsa hit in my country, I think my arrangement isn't more difficult and has a similar vibe. If I thought of writing something suitable to that guy's skills, I think I'd end writing a cumbia-type arrangement.

[pklima]

That's a tough one. Has this guy done much studio work before? Can you maybe suggest that if money is tight, then paying somebody who are used to getting these things done quickly can get the parts done in one-two takes is the cheapest way out? Or if he only plays Bb trumpet say you want F and C trumpets for some of the parts?

I mean, I can see this ending badly. I played on one album where the label owner said he won't limit how much time we get, the drummer spent a week in the studio and the producer then spent several days chopping up his parts to fix the timing... nobody was happy with the end result, least of all the label.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by pklima

Has this guy done much studio work before?

As far as I know, he only has entered a recording studio twice in around 35 years he's been playing. The first one was in 1980 and the second one in 1996, IIRC.

[AltGrendel]

Sounds like the "studio time = money" argument might win. Not sure how you'd soften him up for this first though.

[bluewine]

What is tropical music?

[HeadyVan Halen]

Have guy 1 record his part.
Call guy 2 who is better. Have him record his part.
Tell guy 1 "your good..your in the mix'
Put guy 2's playing on disc.
Give guy 1 a copy of himself playing. He thinks he's on the Master.
He is not.

Problem solved.

[GianGian]

I think that the best you can do is ti try to be honest with him and let him pay for his character flaws.
If the doesn't even allow you to do this, there is not much else you can do.

[Stumbo]

Tell the boss' cousin that you are following the boss' orders/instructions.
Let the boss record his parts.
Let the cousin tell his cousin(your boss) that he sucks and to get someone else on trumpet because the arrangement is perfect for his music.

Let them duke it out. Put the responsibility on the people in power.

[Downunderwonder]

Record the boss last. That way he gets a good dose of reality before he has to go on.

Be sure to keep a running total on the studio time so he knows what he's already spent in doing a few takes per part. If he does ten takes to get the first track down he might call it a day.

If not, you have your wife primed to call you away at 2hr into boss's session.

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

Record the boss last.

Also, put him on his own track if you can. That way, if his stuff needs to be redone, it'll be easy to take out his part out of the mix.