Anyone ever quit a band because they play too fast?

[oldrocker]

So we're a cover band doing a set run through for a benefit we're playing tomorrow. One guitar player insists on playing some songs way too fast. The drummer happily goes along at this tempo.

The songs in question are up tempo tunes, and I'm OK with playing them a little faster than the recorded versions but they want to play almost twice as fast, loosing all concept of any groove and losing any tightness as a band in the process.

In the past I have played them the original recording and all agree the songs are not as fast as we think they are and definitly not as fast as we play them. But come next week we're back to breakneck speed again. With the guitar player saying the songs are boring played at the proper tempo.

I'm tired of fighting and just thinking of playing out our current commiments and then leaving.

So, has anyone ever quit a band because they play songs too fast?

[electracoyote]

Been tempted. I was in a really good cover band back in the 80s. We had a great following, packed bars all over the state of Ohio, and maybe that says something about the people who matter most: The ones you're playing for. They didn't seem to mind, but it aggravated the hell out of me. I listen to recordings we made and compare them to the orignials, and we are going 20 to 30 precent faster sometimes. SO...the choice is yours. Play music for the people who matter most (your audience) and try to be diplomatic about tempos in rehearsal, or cut your losses and find some players who pay more attention to detail. I know this: When I go to see a national act, and they are flying through their material, the first thing I think of is they are either a) stoned, b) bored, or c) both. I would MUCH prefer to hear bands play the song to tempo, but then again I'm in the minority in the audience. I'm a musician with a critical ear.

[Rudreax]

If you're playing so fast that it makes the tune sound differently than the original song, there's a problem. If you really don't want to play like that and your bandmates don't feel the same way as you (as you've said), it's time to leave.

[TheBasicBassist]

i don't think it's a matter of a band playing a song too fast and that's why your quitting.
i think it's a matter of your cover band acting as though you disagreeing with them
invalidates your opinion and any say you have in the band/way songs should be played.
and yes, i've quit a decent number of bands for that reason.
(the latest now has a late thirty-year old guitard playing bass [they're all 19-21], they haven't gigged since i left. and my new band was requested to play a local pub [not much but still] within a month and a half of us being together.)
so it's their loss, your probably awesome. bass players can hook up with a band way more easily anyway, with people who'll actually respect what you say, just don't forget to respect them back.

-- john

[Steve]

Some players just don't get it that a lot of bass lines are tempo dependant and if you shift too far, the line stops working and as you said, the groove gets pooched.

It's been my experience that people that don't get that, will never get it.

If the song was so boring to him at the tempo he first heard it, why'd he learn the tune?

[JazzyJames]

Thats somewhat of the situation Im in currently. I find if I present them with quality songs Ive written, then theyll be happy to play them. Otherwise, they just play Coheed and Cambria or Led Zeppelin sounding jams.

[KingCrimson]

What genre are you guys, tempo changes work great for certain jazz, metal or punk (within reason), but classic rock, blues, soul etc usually stays at the same tempo as the original

[Knifedge]

That's exactly the situation I was in with the last band I joined. Guitar player pushed the tempo to the point where the singer could hardly get all the words in. When I first joined the band it wasn't a problem. Basically, at my audition, everyone was sober. Before I joined the band, I MADE SURE that there were no major issues with alcohol and drugs, the guitard gave me his word that only a couple of beers were normally had during the whole night.

First gig after a couple of practices, went well.
Second gig went well.
Third gig, started noticing the drummer was not quite in the pocket. (my metering is considered excellent by all that hire me, which is why I get a lot of fill in gigs as well).
Fourth gig, keyboard player loses his cool because songs in the second and third set were getting progressively faster and losing their pocket and cohesion

2 months later, I had a chat with drummer to try to isolate the problem. Apparently, before I joined, the tempo problem was rampant, and the keyboard player blamed the drummer for failing to keep tempo. At that time I also had a chat with the keyboard player and I told him I had a plan to figure out why there was a tempo issue, because I was noticing the guitar player was drinking a little more each gig. Each gig we played, guitard would brag about what a great night he had, while the rest of us shook our heads wondering what was the problem. So, drummer and I focused much more than normal for the next gig, we stayed on tempo, pocket was perfect, and keyboard player was really happy. But, guess who had a really bad night?

Yep, Guitard.

The more he drank, the more he pushed the tempo. The guitard was quite loud, so drummer leaned toward guitard's tempo, throwing everyone off.

At that point, guitard was drinking 12 beers before even coming on stage. The band had approached him 5 times over the last 2 years to slow down on the drinking. By that time, I felt like I was had by the guitard. Then more problems. Pay was shorted because guitard spent his $125 at the bar, so he took care of the recieving of the money, and tried to tell us that the bar could only afford to pay us so much. Of course, keyboard player went straight to the bar owner, where bar owner told keyboard player that we received full pay, which meant guitard drank his share, and tried to put one over on us. It was that night that I decided that I was leaving. I told Keyboard player and drummer (singer was best friends with guitard and was just as drunk and stoned for the last few gigs) that I was leaving the band. They convinced me to stay for a little longer

2 more gigs pass, keyboard player was so peeved off at guitard that he sent me an email asking if I knew a guitar player as he was going to fire guitard. The three of us got together and decided that we would leave that band and form our own. We got a singer who showed impressive professionalism, my brother for a guitar player, and the rest of us, and left guitard and singer friend behind. We have been a very happy and decently busy band for the last year, while the other band, while still going, are getting very few gigs. Apparently, bar owners didn't want to deal with guitard because of their dislike for him.

If the story confuses you, go to wikipedia and look up ADHD. kidding.

That's my story, I am sticking to it, but yes, I totally identify to what the OP is going through.

[ilovemy79pbass]

besides one cover of Tom Sawyer i heard by a punk band, everything faster sounded cheap, I dont wanna go against "electracoyote" because your audience is important, but first I must please myself because I know alot of guys(including myself) that play for their own joy and entertainment not others, they just happen to share their enjoyment with a crowd.

[ric stave]

Many bands play a little bit faster live, but when I was putting together my dance band (with my good friend the drummer), we made sure the tempos of the original versions were kept for each song - I mean, after all, these songs were written and made famous as danceable songs - and were danceable AT THE TEMPO(s) THEY WERE WRITTEN AT.....


I saw a band play Rick James' "Super Freak", and one of the members told me "Yeah, we play a lot of this dance/disco stuff, but we push it hard and fast and make it cooler!".
They played most of the songs so fast that people gave up trying to dance to them - I mean, what's the frickin' point of playing dance music if the tempo is "groove-unfriendly"??

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by oldrocker

So we're a cover band doing a set run through for a benefit we're playing tomorrow. One guitar player insists on playing some songs way too fast. The drummer happily goes along at this tempo...The songs in question are up tempo tunes, and I'm OK with playing them a little faster than the recorded versions but they want to play almost twice as fast, loosing all concept of any groove and losing any tightness as a band in the process.

Too fast for whom? If it's too fast for your fans to dance to, then it's too fast and it doesn't really matter what the band thinks because it's defeating the purpose (to entertain).

Originally Posted by oldrocker

With the guitar player saying the songs are boring played at the proper tempo.

I wonder how boring he would think it was to play without any bass.
It would certainly lack groove then, wouldn't it?

"What the...? Where's my groove?!" <-----(guitard looking for groove)

You could always just play 1/4 notes on the Root (or Root & 5th if you want to be fancy) to make your point. Play it 1/2 as fast as they are playing it and you'll suck the juice right out of the tune (or you'll accidentally discover a cool NEW groove)!

OK...I'm done trying to be a comic. Seriously, the biggest problem that you have is that the drummer sides with the guitarist. The truth is (and you know this as a bassist) that you and drummer control the song. You 2 set the tempo. Everyone has play your tempo or they sound like crap. If you could talk with the drummer on the side and get him to value the groove that you 2 have to create, you can get the songs back to a groovy tempo. If the drummer is more interested in locking in with the guitarist than the bassist, then your issue is that you are just playing with bad or inexperienced musicians = time to leave.

[pedulla-2007]

I played in a cover band that always finished a 45 minute set in 35 minutes. We were having to add songs to the set list, and I don't like to play the same songs twice. IMO it shows a lack of prepared material. I was the senior member and when I asked them to slow down, they played the next song so slowly, that the people in the audience stopped dancing and looked up at the band . I tried to explain to them that when Eric Clapton was young, all he wanted to do was show off his lightning chops. Now they call him "SLOW HAND", hence the slower remake of his song "LAYLA". We were playing out of town and I took my then girlfriend with me. She did'nt want to sit in the audience while we we were setting up, so I let her on stage while I was setting up my equipment. The leader of the band quickly told her to go sit down. That was my last gig with that band. I was not allowed any musical input when it came to song selection, and arrangement. The last straw was being mean to my girlfriend because they were mad at me.

[Ric5]

many bands fall into the too loud and too fast trap ... these can be hallmarks of a 2nd rate band.

[DaltonR121]

I've never really had the problem much. I mean people sometimes end up rushing because of adrenaline but I can count on one hand the number of times that it's been REALLY bad.

Everyone in my band were drummers actually except our guitarist haha. We all marched drumline together in high school and all happen to play other instruments. We are all such close friends that we all can play off of and read each other and have fun with it.

[Phalex]

I feel your pain. Especially after the gig I had last night! (I'm hoping it was just a freak incident and I won't have to quit!)

[electracoyote]

Sorry Pedulla, there's a much more factual and interesting explanation for Clapton's nickname.
__________________________________________________

Pedulla wrote: I tried to explain to them that when Eric Clapton was young, all he wanted to do was show off his lightning chops. Now they call him "SLOW HAND", hence the slower remake of his song "LAYLA".

[TrevorOfDoom]

listen to The Police live... their old live album has them playing everything so fast that's it's barely musical at all...

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by TrevorOfDoom

listen to The Police live... their old live album has them playing everything so fast that's it's barely musical at all...

Huh?

Their old albums were amazing and honestly weren`t fast by any modern standards(even the live ones). They had a punk edge that definantly made the songs a bit up-tempo, but I think that did nothing but add energy to the song. It also helped get people up and moving about.

If you listen or watch their recent live shows, people actually look like they are falling asleep from being bored... I know I was.

IMO

[oldrocker]

Originally Posted by TheBasicBassist

i don't think it's a matter of a band playing a song too fast and that's why your quitting.
i think it's a matter of your cover band acting as though you disagreeing with them
invalidates your opinion and any say you have in the band/way songs should be played.
...

-- john

Hi John:

You are partially right, it is both. It is an issue of the band playing songs too fast, plus not listening to my opinion.

As an update, we played the benefit and the drummer and guitar player payed carefull attention to not playing too fast.

This made the songs sound better, and validated my opinion.

We did pretty well and several people came up to us after our set to tell us how much they enjoyed it.

This band doesn't have much exerience playing in front of people, this is our 1st time out since last July, so tempo will probably be an ongoing thing with these guys.

[mndean]

This happened with my band leader restructuring a song. He had a pretty decent song recorded that was a blues that didn't follow 12-bar structure (and which was recorded at someone else's studio), so he "fixed" it. He also sped it up so much that he even can't sing all the words intelligibly. Why he sped the song up I'll never know, but the song now has no groove at all. A blues song with no groove. I tried telling him it was better as he recorded it, but it didn't work. He gets testy if he doesn't write, arrange, and record and mix his songs himself because then they're not "his" anymore - he has to rely on someone else. I want to tell him, "What do you think a band is? You're the leader, but you're also relying on everyone else", but I'm just letting it go for now. The only good thing is I can mostly talk him out of bad ideas given enough time, and there's a month to the opening gig.