Anyone grow tired of this kind of rock show format/venue?

[()smoke()]

my rock band plays a couple of times a month locally in the DFW area...we all have jobs, so this isn't our livlihood...i joined them about a year ago, and we've since had a lot of fun writing and playing shows

...but with original rock music like this, the norm in the city for most venues is the typical multi-band bill with shorter sets from each band...previously, in other bands, we did similar shows, but we always had 3 bands, 4 at the maximum very rarely, with one playing a very short opening set...however, these days, we're playing on bills with often 5-6 bands, and the sets are 30-35 minutes each

as you can imagine, the preperation seems out of proportion for playing these kinds of shows

as mentioned, it's been fun, but i'm starting to really long for longer sets...this weekend, the 'hurry up and play/hurry up and finish/you've now lost one song because your guitarists amp wasn't hooked up properly in time' thing just kind of rubbed me the wrong way

anyone deal with this in a way that you kept playing with the band? i want to keep playing with them, but i think i'd really like to branch out as well with another band, perhaps doing covers or more dance music, so that i could do the longer set thing

any input is appreciated

[jefwho]

I know exactly where you are coming from.

Where as its nice to have all those bands in one place for networking, and general musician bonding. it bites when load in, load out, set up and tear down are longer than your set.

Personally i think three to four bands with hour sets is perfect!

[pasta4lnch]

I hate to say it but chuck in a couple of covers and you can broaden your venues. necessary evil, but we usually play 3 hour nights. we have about 16-20 originals we rotate through. never once heard a venue complain . . .

another solution I'm seeing pop up is get in friendly w/ a few bands that are in your vein, or more specifically share fans w/. start a themed night at a local venue. it's better for the bands so they can play longer. it's better for the fans cuz they are not paying covers, drink minimums for 45 minutes. and do it on a thursday and it'll be way worth it for a venue to get the traffic on an off night.

[acubass]

I'm not a fan of it either...One venue in our area has 4-5 groups play in a single night. There is more setup/breakdown than music.

[PBass101]

+1 to getting together with one or two other bands and contacting a venue to put together your own show. At my campus, the crappy basement house parties get about forty five minutes per band, including setup time which can take forever. The "bigger" bands set up their own shows with the bars, choose who to share a bill with, and can play for upwards of several hours.

[Thankful birds]

It's a matter of overhead for the club. When it comes to original music, the band, not the club is the draw. If every band can be counted on to bring about 10 people, the club sells more drinks, food, etc. if there are more bands.

Here's how you get around this. When my band books with clubs, we often offer to book to our own show. If a club takes you up on it, 3-4 bands is fine, but make sure you do a great job promoting and get bands that are high profile enough to bring in the same number of people that 5-6 bands would bring in. Also, know that you are now in charge of any and all screw ups. We work with bands we know, we give them time frames for responding to us to get on a bill, and if we haven't heard back by that time we ask the next bands. We tell everyone in advance what playinging times will be, we verify whether there is a P.A., we provide digital flyers, and we make sure bands get on and get off. At the end of the night, we take receipt of money and dole it out fairly and promptly without being asked.

Keep in mind, this is a lot of work, and typically requires that you book three or so months in advance so that you're able to get bands and clubs on board. But, for all the headaches, our shows almost always run smoother than club or promoter shows, and we get paid at the end of the night.

[rappa29]

I'm just getting back into the original music scene and have a gig this weekend where it's 4 bands, 1hr set each.

I haven't done a gig like this in over 10 years, so for me it's refreshing not having to play covers for 3 hrs like I do playing keys in the cover band I'm in. Plus getting out of there at a decent hour is a bonus.

We were also invited to play a gig with multiple bands (6+), 30min sets each in Nov. I told our singer\guitarist that I'd rather pass on it and book another 4 band\1 hr set gig.

It's definitely a trade off, that right now I'm okay with since I'm just happy to be playing originals. But I've been playing music long enough to know that I'm not going to be a rockstar and that my time is more valuable right now to load in\setup for 2 hours for a 30 minute set.

I'm more discriminating about what kinds of gigs to play these days. YMMV.

[()smoke()]

good ideas, thanks guys

we've on occasion set up shows with 2 of the bands we count as great friends and enjoy playing with, and these have been very successful in drawing people and overall vibe--we have pretty good relationships with a few venue managers, so i'll talk to the guys about maybe allowing us set up the shows with chosen bands and keep it to 3 bands for the night...if we can draw what we usually pull in plus a few more to make up for the 4th and 5th bands, that should do the trick


i hear you on the covers thing, and i personally like to play covers, but it hasn't been something that's been received well by all members of the band...however, we've discussed it and it could be possible

...and i completely understand the venues' position on this--we don't have the draw of say a cover band in a honky tonk--dancing brings people, and there's not much dancing at these shows

[Kenny Allyn]

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

any input is appreciated

OK here ya go ...

In our case we do the multi-band thing only on rare occasions and then usually only for a charity event. Everything we do is geared to a "full nights show" can't for the life of me see any advantage in set-up and tear down for 30 or even 45 minutes?

As mentioned if that means playing originals and covers then so be it (that's what we do) and the covers we play our way, IMO makes for a well rounded and tight band that gets the better bookings and showcases your ability to a wide and real audience.

...

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by Thankful birds

It's a matter of overhead for the club. When it comes to original music, the band, not the club is the draw. If every band can be counted on to bring about 10 people, the club sells more drinks, food, etc. if there are more bands.

^^^^^^^nailed it^^^^^^^^^
I really dig that you guys stick to your original guns, so please don't think that I'm putting you down. But you guys KILL it for cover bands in my area. If a club can book half a dozen bands for $4.75 per band, why would he pay decent money for a cover band to play all night? I only wish you guys would "band together" and set a minimum price for original bands in each area. Not a formal union, but you get the idea. If you did, clubs could only afford to have a couple or three bands on any given night. Then maybe you could actually put a few bucks in your pocket AND play longer sets. "Giving" your art away in the interest of "exposure" really doesn't help anybody in the live music world, including yourselves. I did it back in the day. It didn't work. It still doesn't. OR as stated above as well, you could do half and half covers/originals. The rule in our area to be called a "cover band" (thus get some actual paying gigs) is 60% covers. Then you could get your own shows. Either way, good luck!

[()smoke()]

Originally Posted by two fingers

^^^^^^^nailed it^^^^^^^^^
I really dig that you guys stick to your original guns, so please don't think that I'm putting you down. But you guys KILL it for cover bands in my area. If a club can book half a dozen bands for $4.75 per band, why would he pay decent money for a cover band to play all night? I only wish you guys would "band together" and set a minimum price for original bands in each area. Not a formal union, but you get the idea. If you did, clubs could only afford to have a couple or three bands on any given night. Then maybe you could actually put a few bucks in your pocket AND play longer sets. "Giving" your art away in the interest of "exposure" really doesn't help anybody in the live music world, including yourselves. I did it back in the day. It didn't work. It still doesn't. OR as stated above as well, you could do half and half covers/originals. The rule in our area to be called a "cover band" (thus get some actual paying gigs) is 60% covers. Then you could get your own shows. Either way, good luck!

yeah, i understand exactly what you're saying--no delusions of stardom with us, just playing the places that still offer live original rock music (the scene here almost died off completely a few years ago, and is struggling to return), and we haven't yet really tried to challenge their methods of booking

i'd be great with doing half covers, longer sets, and more $$, that's exactly what i'm looking for

[RobertPaulson]

It's tough, I see a lot of venues doing this more and more. We try to avoid those at all costs, but playing out of town you don't always know the full lineup before you load in. I try to keep bills to ideally 2, 3 bands tops. It's just not worth it to go to that work for 30 minutes of playing, as an originals band you typically don't make a lot of money anyway, so I really don't see the incentive to play a show such as this.

[Kenny Allyn]

Smoke ... you list the "Meters" as an influence


Try having some of the guys in your band listen to this and maybe you can let them see a different concept of how to work a "cover" ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShHe7...elated&search=

... If it works for Ivan Neville and George Porter!

[GearHeadBassMan]

This is definitely the way things are run around these parts. The larger venues that throw all original shows showed everyone that the more bands you book, the more money you make.

Getting shows with a punk band opener usually works well. My old band played a show with 5 bands, 3 of which were the real playing bands (read: the ones people were coming to see) and we had a high energy punk band open up the show with a really fun, and most importantly short set. That got the crowd ready for the next three bands, which people wanted to see, to play extended sets (we all got around an hour total including setup and breakdown) and then a new band playing there first show finished out the night with a short 20 minute set. Since the smaller bands had minimal equipment their setup/breakdown was really quick, and the show made a bunch of money.

However, when we played that "big local venue", there were nine bands on the bill, and every band was backlined on the stage. We were slotted first since it was our first show there, and we had about 2 feet of stage because of all the amps on stage. I should mention that the venue had scheduled NINE bands for a 7-midnight show. SO we all got about 20 minutes total time, AND they wanted up to pay to play (we "lost" a couple of our tickets by giving them away)

anyway, what I'm saying is, sometimes it works, sometimes, you just gotta play it or pass.

The venues are just trying to get heads in the doors. More people, more fun, more money.

[()smoke()]

Originally Posted by Kenny Allyn

Smoke ... you list the "Meters" as an influence


Try having some of the guys in your band listen to this and maybe you can let them see a different concept of how to work a "cover" ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShHe7...elated&search=

... If it works for Ivan Neville and George Porter!

Kenny--cool man, i will check it out this evening when i get home, i love the meters and that vein of music in general...our drummer is a big fan as well, so maybe that's my 'in'

[Thor]

I am just getting warmed up after 20 mins. I wouldn't touch it
given the work needed to make it happen.

2 bands is ok, 3 max for me.

[pasta4lnch]

Originally Posted by ()smoke()

i hear you on the covers thing, and i personally like to play covers, but it hasn't been something that's been received well by all members of the band...however, we've discussed it and it could be possible

i recently started playing bass in a band that i've worked w/ as a producer and engineer for years. i've been telling them to play more covers and break out from the 45min stuff for a long time. most of them scoffed. we just retained a management firm who's advice was just that. with-in 2 weeks we have almost double the amount of gigs booked...and we're getting PAID!

attitudes have changed! ya gotta suck it up to get ahead. way it goes!

[Thankful birds]

Originally Posted by two fingers

^^^^^^^nailed it^^^^^^^^^
I really dig that you guys stick to your original guns, so please don't think that I'm putting you down. But you guys KILL it for cover bands in my area. If a club can book half a dozen bands for $4.75 per band, why would he pay decent money for a cover band to play all night? I only wish you guys would "band together" and set a minimum price for original bands in each area. Not a formal union, but you get the idea. If you did, clubs could only afford to have a couple or three bands on any given night. Then maybe you could actually put a few bucks in your pocket AND play longer sets. "Giving" your art away in the interest of "exposure" really doesn't help anybody in the live music world, including yourselves. I did it back in the day. It didn't work. It still doesn't. OR as stated above as well, you could do half and half covers/originals. The rule in our area to be called a "cover band" (thus get some actual paying gigs) is 60% covers. Then you could get your own shows. Either way, good luck!

That's ironic because around here cover bands kill it for originals bands. Although, our bars are typically more meat-marketish, which lend themselves to the idea that the bar draws regulars, not the bands.

Just a quick soap boxy thing- I would like to see all musicians refuse as a matter of principle to play "battle of the bands" and "pay to play" shows. Look, I know when you're starting out it's hard to turn down a show, but these ridiculous things kill live music by tailoring to bands who can sell tickets, not necessarily play music well. Crappy bands turn people off to going to see shows and WILL KILL your local scene. I saw it when I lived in St. Louis, and I'm seeing it now in Phoenix. The only people who stand to gain by these things are smarmy promoters who want to earn the short term buck, even if it's at the expense of the bands, the clubs, or the local music scene in general.

If you can't get a show, my advice is to make one. Rent a vfw or private hall with 2-3 other bands and advertise like hell. This works especially well if you're underage as you can get all of your friends and the other bands' friends out to a hall. If you're over 21, pick a hall with a liquor license and see if they'll have a bartender available if you think you need alcohol to get your age group out there. Hand out anything with your myspace or facebook address on it and use these shows to build a fanbase until you are justified to go to a club owner and try to book show and can let them know what your draw is.

[Jehos]

As another DFW bassist, I can say pretty frankly--if you build a following, you won't have to deal with that crap anymore. There's a singer/songwriter I used to play with who had her own pretty sizeable following. Anywhere she booked, she'd just spread the word and 100-200 people would show up. Bars *loved* us--we booked our own show with them and hired our own opening band since we didn't have the material to cover all night. It was great, but it was only possible because the following was there. If you've got 15 people following you around, you're stuck.

Unfortunately I don't have any tips on how to build that following--I joined up with her and the following was there. My current band is a cover band, so we just go to the places that want to book a cover band to play all night for $400-600 or so.

[tomas_almeida]

I am lucky that the band I'm in nowadays has got some popularity and there's not much competition, so we get a lot of shows of just us and sometimes an opening band before, but I can see what you mean. It is a little sad takin in acount the time spent in preparation.