Applied for a job at a church...

[saustindavis]

Just dropped of my resume and application for an open Director of Contemporary Worship position at our church, but I am feeling a little nervous about the whole thing. I feel like God has given me the skills and knowledge to to the job, and I feel called to music ministry, but have had a hard time finding a music ministry job in the past. I've been trying to keep a positive attitude about the whole thing, but sometimes I find myself a little worried that I will get overlooked again because I don't have a degree in music or as much experience as some of the other applicants. In the last month I led the music at the church twice as a volunteer since the leader resigned a month ago, and it went really well both times. We have been attending the church for almost a year, and my mother-in-law is the Children's Minister there, so sometimes I think I've got a decent shot at getting the job, but then I read the job description and one of the qualifications is a BA in Music, Worship, or a related field. I am close to finishing a degree, I should graduate in the spring, but I don't really see the advantage of having a music degree anyway. I've always said that I love music too much to major in it. My major is Christian Studies, so it is related to ministry, but when I'm going up against people with 10 years experience leading worship and a music degree I feel like I don't even have a chance. Sorry to get on here and rant a little, I guess I just want some opinions on applying for jobs in ministry and/or churches. Thanks!

[MNAirHead]

I'm a WL

I'll note a few realities

Singing guitar and piano are the golden tickets. It's then babysitting

Unless your congregation is a mega the bachelors isn't necessary


Oh yea media shout and planning center experience helps as much as ccli history

Please pm me if I can help

[CapnSev]

Good luck man, hope it works out!

[jaywa]

I wouldn't sweat the lack of a degree. If you're the right person in every other way they will almost certainly give you serious consideration and may even hire you "conditionally" since you're close to having it in hand anyway.

A lot of times especially in bigger churches, these job descriptions are vetted by a committee (and sometimes, voted on by the congregation), and if the position is full-time with more than about $30K of salary you pretty much have to specify a Bachelors' Degree just to get the description approved. A lot of congregations consider that "a lot" of money and seem to think if they're paying someone that "much" that the least the person can bring to the table is a 4-year degree. Silly I know, but that's just how the game is run.

I would actually be more concerned about your mother-in-law already being on the payroll. That could actually work against you rather than help you depending on your church's attitude towards that sort of thing... and whether you and your mother-in-law get along.

[kb9wyz]

I would generally agree with MNAirHead up there. The one thing I will say, though, is that a lot can be said for a BA in Worship Arts. I have seen leaders with and without that degree. The difference is pretty noticeable to me. But then, a lot of experience with worship and band leading will get you most of the way there, too. If you got the calling, go with it.

[saustindavis]

Originally Posted by jaywa

I would actually be more concerned about your mother-in-law already being on the payroll. That could actually work against you rather than help you depending on your church's attitude towards that sort of thing... and whether you and your mother-in-law get along.

I told the pastor a few weeks ago that I was planning to apply for the job, and he said they would welcome my resume. I wouldn't be responsible to her, so that's probably why he didn't consider it a problem. Also, we get along pretty good and have similar ideas about how a church should be run, so I think it would be ok in that regard. They are offering $38-40k, which is WAY more than I've ever made in the past. The last girl that had the job had a music degree, but I never really cared for her style of leadership or the musical style that she played. It was almost like everything was correct according to theory, but it turned out dry IMO. I think one of my strengths is leading a band and getting the most out of inexperienced players, and developing leaders within the volunteer pool, which is something she struggled with. I just hope I get an interview so that I can explain these things, since they are hard to put into words on a resume.

[saustindavis]

Originally Posted by kb9wyz

I would generally agree with MNAirHead up there. The one thing I will say, though, is that a lot can be said for a BA in Worship Arts. I have seen leaders with and without that degree. The difference is pretty noticeable to me. But then, a lot of experience with worship and band leading will get you most of the way there, too. If you got the calling, go with it.

As much as I would love to get a degree in Worship Arts I can't afford the high costs of a private Christian university. The only reason I am almost done with a degree right now is that Grand Canyon University has an online program and offers a discount to military members. I don't want to go 30-40 thousand dollars into debt so that I can get a job making 30-40 thousand dollars a year... Maybe if I had done that from the beginning it would be a great idea, but I don't want to start over now that I'm so close.

[Phalex]

From what I've seen, it's a stressful gig. More so than gigging in a bar band. It's one heck of a commitment. I hope you get the position, but I also pray you can handle it.



I'm a fill in at my church, and that's plenty for me.

[hrodbert696]

I've applied for lots of jobs I thought - heck, that I KNEW - I was a good match for... and didn't even get an interview. At the end of the day, you can't sweat it, just put your stuff out there and see what happens. A job is like a wife; you don't need a dozen different ones to choose from, you just need one good one that works out. Sooner or later you'll find it. So don't worry about what your chances are, just put it out there and let it go.

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by saustindavis

....I feel like God has given me the skills and knowledge to to the job, and I feel called to music ministry.....

So.... why don't you have a degree? If this is the job you want, and are called to, why not do the study and get the degree? You're already spending money on college.

[saustindavis]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

So.... why don't you have a degree? If this is the job you want, and are called to, why not do the study and get the degree? You're already spending money on college.

Because I would basically have to start over on the classes I need toward a major, and unlike many people nowadays I am not ok with going into that much debt just to get a degree. Maybe on a Masters someday, but not on a Bachelors. I will graduate in the Spring with a BA in Christian Studies, which will be useful in a church/ministry setting, but sometimes church members that are on hiring committees see a music degree and assume it will be more useful for a worship leader position. I believe I have gained adequate skills and knowledge to lead a band from my experiences as a volunteer musician with music ministries and from playing gigs as a solo musician, and would rather take classes about the New Testament, Church Leadership, Biblical Interpretation, etc. in order to develop pastoral skills so that I can eventually participate in preaching, leading bible studies and small groups, and help with counseling if needed.

[saustindavis]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

I've applied for lots of jobs I thought - heck, that I KNEW - I was a good match for... and didn't even get an interview. At the end of the day, you can't sweat it, just put your stuff out there and see what happens. A job is like a wife; you don't need a dozen different ones to choose from, you just need one good one that works out. Sooner or later you'll find it. So don't worry about what your chances are, just put it out there and let it go.

This is some really good advise, it made me feel more at peace about the situation. Thanks!

[Art Araya]

I am a worship leader and have been for the last 5 years. Before that I was the bass player on worship teams for over 20 years. PM me if you'd like to talk.

I have a music degree and it has come in handy many times. Is it a requirement for contemporary christian music? I wouldn't say so but it does come in very handy in many ways you wouldn't imagine. It's just another tool in your kit that you have available when the need arises.

Your lack of experience leading worship would be a bigger concern for me. Am I correct in hearing you say that you've led worship twice? Let me say to anyone reading this - you have no idea what goes into this position. It takes a level of musical and spiritual and relational maturity. If you are lacking in any of these areas it's going to show up sooner rather than later and create much stress and turmoil for you, your team, your church, your family, etc... I'd say that you continue to grow in God and in loving/serving others, and in leading worship before assuming the reigns. You say that you feel called of God to worship ministry - that's awesome! But does that mean you are called to lead the ministry at this time? I'm also called but in my case I had to wait for 20 years before it was my turn to step up and lead. To be honest, I wouldn't have been ready before and I would have done a poor job. Make sure this is God's timing for your promotion. He has a way of elevating us in His time. (I don't know any details about you personally so if this doesn't apply, just skip it.)

Regarding not meeting the stated requirements for the position - don't let that deter you from putting in for a position. Those are often lists of ideal qualifications. If you get an interview you can often sell yourself.

[saustindavis]

Originally Posted by Art Araya

I am a worship leader and have been for the last 5 years. Before that I was the bass player on worship teams for over 20 years. PM me if you'd like to talk.

I have a music degree and it has come in handy many times. Is it a requirement for contemporary christian music? I wouldn't say so but it does come in very handy in many ways you wouldn't imagine. It's just another tool in your kit that you have available when the need arises.

Your lack of experience leading worship would be a bigger concern for me. Am I correct in hearing you say that you've led worship twice? Let me say to anyone reading this - you have no idea what goes into this position. It takes a level of musical and spiritual and relational maturity. If you are lacking in any of these areas it's going to show up sooner rather than later and create much stress and turmoil for you, your team, your church, your family, etc... I'd say that you continue to grow in God and in loving/serving others, and in leading worship before assuming the reigns. You say that you feel called of God to worship ministry - that's awesome! But does that mean you are called to lead the ministry at this time? I'm also called but in my case I had to wait for 20 years before it was my turn to step up and lead. To be honest, I wouldn't have been ready before and I would have done a poor job. Make sure this is God's timing for your promotion. He has a way of elevating us in His time. (I don't know any details about you personally so if this doesn't apply, just skip it.)

Regarding not meeting the stated requirements for the position - don't let that deter you from putting in for a position. Those are often lists of ideal qualifications. If you get an interview you can often sell yourself.

I have led worship many times over the last almost 10 years, just twice recently at our current church where I am applying. People, even the pastor, said they really enjoyed it and felt moved by the music, which was encouraging to me. I was actually a youth ministry intern for almost 3 years right out of high school and got to lead a youth group in musical worship on a weekly basis, as well as the main service a few times. Since then I have led at various churches, one in particular for about 8 months as part time staff, but mostly as a stand-in when the regular leader wasn't available. I understand what the job requires, and I feel like I can meet the requirements, and am willing to work hard at improving areas that I am not as strong in yet.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by Phalex

From what I've seen, it's a stressful gig. More so than gigging in a bar band. It's one heck of a commitment. I hope you get the position, but I also pray you can handle it.

Funny you should say that. A friend of mine -- an excellent musician with many years of both secular and worship playing experience -- recently applied for a full-time gig at a major church in this area. I mean he was lining up his replacement for his band, getting ready to drop his day job... the whole deal. And then suddenly, no. He's back with his band, back at his day job, etc. By all appearances, for whatever reason, he "un-applied" from the church job. Haven't had a chance to follow-up with him but I'm very interested to find out what changed his mind.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by jaywa

Funny you should say that. A friend of mine -- an excellent musician with many years of both secular and worship playing experience -- recently applied for a full-time gig at a major church in this area. I mean he was lining up his replacement for his band, getting ready to drop his day job... the whole deal. And then suddenly, no. He's back with his band, back at his day job, etc. By all appearances, for whatever reason, he "un-applied" from the church job. Haven't had a chance to follow-up with him but I'm very interested to find out what changed his mind.

I think it's just a HUGE responsibility. There's a lot more to it than just picking songs, and selecting who's going to play one week to the next.

Plus I think as a ministry, it is unnoticed and unappreciated by the more "important" players.

The guy that had been the worship leader for years stepped down a few months ago at my church. I think a lot of people were taken by surprise and didn't understand why. I think I was the only guy that came out and said "Good for you". I hear he's putting together a band for fun now.

[SteveC]

I am not a WL but I do play in a group at church. We are a volunteer church so just lining up a band for every Sunday is a full time job. Then you meet with pastors to plan the service, music, etc. Not sure I want that as my day job. Definitely not an easy gig.

[Art Araya]

Originally Posted by saustindavis

I have led worship many times over the last almost 10 years, just twice recently at our current church where I am applying. People, even the pastor, said they really enjoyed it and felt moved by the music, which was encouraging to me. I was actually a youth ministry intern for almost 3 years right out of high school and got to lead a youth group in musical worship on a weekly basis, as well as the main service a few times. Since then I have led at various churches, one in particular for about 8 months as part time staff, but mostly as a stand-in when the regular leader wasn't available. I understand what the job requires, and I feel like I can meet the requirements, and am willing to work hard at improving areas that I am not as strong in yet.

Yeah this is why I made sure to say "I don't know any details about you personally so if this doesn't apply, just skip it.".

All I know is that in my many years of doing this I've seen so many people think that they can lead worship or lead the ministry that are grossly inexperienced and have no idea what they're walking into. I was trying to save you from that!

Trust God, that if this is the place and time for your promotion, it'll work out.

God bless bro.

[saustindavis]

Originally Posted by Phalex

I think it's just a HUGE responsibility. There's a lot more to it than just picking songs, and selecting who's going to play one week to the next.

SO TRUE! I think sometimes churches even fall into the thinking that the worship leader is just there for a weekly 'gig', and treat them as such. I want to work toward being a pastor as well, with my focus on music ministry, not just the guy that picks songs and strums a guitar on Sunday morning. I know it can be stressful, but so are a lot of jobs and people still want to do them. Heck, being a parent is stressful, but I still want to have kids (well... I want the kids I have, not more...). And, I don't want to use it as a stepping stone like so many people do. I've seen a lot of situations where someone wants to be a lead pastor of a church, but they accept a job doing youth or music ministry in the meantime. I want to make music, as well as the training, teaching, and/or counseling that goes with it, my focus for as long as I feel called to ministry. I think the rewards outweigh the risks for me when it comes to doing music ministry.

[WayneS]

I never knew there was so much money to be made in a church.