Arent venues becoming pathetic with bands selling tickets

[test dude]

Its just horrible. I saw someone else post up on here before about drawing crowds, and thats all they want. I understand they want to make money, but making the band pay to play shows? The band I recently joined, are now looking for shows. After a halloween house party with drunken college kids got out of control we ended up not playing there and going back to the guitarists house to put on a show for the 15 or so people that came just to watch us. We will be able to draw a crowd of 20 -25 people for ONE show, but we cant do that every week, our friends arent going to dish out that dough all the time. Here is a excerpt I took out of a local clubs myspace that are looking for bands.



Bands should draw a minimum 25 people.
We're booking shows 2 ways now. Here are your choices:

A) Selling Tickets - 25 tickets minimum = $250 handed in day of show
Band will keep everything after 25 ticekts.

B) No Ticket Sales - $50 deposit needed at booking of show.
First 20ppl paying @ the door goes to (the club). Rest to the band.

We dont even care about the money, We just want to play shows. This is rediculous!

[LiamPodmore]

That is pretty rediculous. A venue my band are playing next month do this:

Sell under 50 tickets you have to pay (I think)
Sell over 50 tickets you get 50% of ticket sales.
Sell over 100 tickets you get 75% of ticket sales.

Edit: The tickets are £5($8?), so if you sell 100 you come out with £375($560?), which for a band aged 15-17 is not bad at all.

Liam.

[Gearhead17]

Ouch! I hear you on the issue of crowds and draw. For a cover band in Chicago, it's even more difficult. I still try to get people to come see us all the time and it's purely random if they show up or not. I don't expect people to drive 30 miles one way to see us and then drive back at 2am. You have to figure in a hotel, designated driver, going easy on the drinks...it just gets annoying.

My advice to you is to talk to the bar owner and tell him not to charge cover. You can advertise a free show and get more people to show up that way. Plus, it will increase the amount of random people who see you. It's works for my band, otherwise, you guys are going to be stuck with only your friends coming to shows. Unless your friends to talk their friends about you, you will not go any where up the popularity ladder. It may suck to play shows for free, but it has to be done in the beginning.

You probably should focus on bars that have a natural "built-in crowd". That way you are playing in front of different people each night. Tell the bar owner you are starting out and you are trying to create "that following". Ask him about drink specials and no cover when your band plays. Focus on his alcohol profits more than anything. If he is still hell bent on your drawing capabilities, find another bar.

[bassbully]

The whole tic selling thing sucks and all you are doing is paying your way in and the club isnt losing out. This is why I dont understand whats so bad about the door policy? Allot of Tbers dont like it and I agree a flat rate is great/better but if you go into a bar and they like your music but wont give you a flat rate try asking them to let you take the door and maybe they could have a buck off of it. If you have a decent following and the venue has a decent built in crowd you will make some money. The bar makes a dollar a head and drink money off all those who stay...keep them in by playing well and promote.

Venues and bars are all hurting today and we bands are feeling it too. You have to market and find a way to get in and play and survive with a few dollars. Selling tics is the lowest beside the others deal you posted in which they want a $50.00 dollar deposit and then first 20 people go to the club..that's plain crazy...no way.

[LiamPodmore]

In addition to what Gearhead17 mentioned about the bars that always have a crowd, it also helps to book gigs that have other bands playing, such as mini chairty festivals or unisgned nights. The venue i mentioned in my last post has unsigned nights in its smallest section every night, and occasionally the next biggest one which is what my band are playing. So it may be good to try and find venues that book more than 1 band per night, as then there are alot more people exposed to your music.

Liam.

[Tampabass]

The short answer: Yes.

Well-managed clubs find good bands, pay them decently, spend a little time, energy and $$ to advertise, and over time establish a reputation as a good place to hear music, and a good place for bands to play.

Poorly managed clubs try to shift all of the burden for the club's success to the bands. It's a short-cut that seldom leads to success for the clubs or the bands. It's back---wards.

[aborgman]

Originally Posted by Tampabass

The short answer: Yes.

Well-managed clubs find good bands, pay them decently, spend a little time, energy and $$ to advertise, and over time establish a reputation as a good place to hear music, and a good place for bands to play.

...and thus have a built-in crowd that comes to see music, obviating the need for the band to bring folks.

Originally Posted by Tampabass

Poorly managed clubs try to shift all of the burden for the club's success to the bands. It's a short-cut that seldom leads to success for the clubs or the bands. It's back---wards.

Yep... the old "our bar sucks and we have no crowd, please bring us one".

[Eater_of_Birds]

my area used to be all pay to play (Glasgow, Scotland). we made money on our first gig cause all our friends showed up, then used that money paying exorbitant amounts to play other venues. eventually all the local bands gave up on it and its all shifted to tickets. the venue gets most and the band gets a smaller cut per ticket. not sure what its like for more established bands playing for money, we're just in it to play shows and dont expect to make any real coin off it.

[okcrum]

Don't the bands have a part in perpetuating this?

[zachoff]

Originally Posted by okcrum

Don't the bands have a part in perpetuating this?

Yup, the bands desperate for gigs & willing to do whatever they can to play out..

[Chuck King]

Those gigs are not real gigs; that is Band Fantasy Camp. You're paying somebody to let you get up on their stage and act like rock stars. Depending on where you are, it may be the only way to get stage time. But, "gigs" like that are not really going to give you any exposure because the only people who come to them are your friends, i.e., people who already know about your band and like you. If you're on a bill with a bunch of other bands, theoretically you can play for those other bands and some of their fans, but in my experience people come for their friends' bands and leave immediately afterwards---they're not usually interested in hearing anybody else.

Clubs that put shows like that together also tend to not pay much attention to whether the bands on the bill are a good fit with each other, so you probably won't even have the advantage of playing for people who might like you.

Any band that can get 25 paying customers to a gig can get a real gig. Bars put together those ticket deals knowing that in reality the bands are not going to draw that many people and will end up paying for the tickets themselves.

Try to play for parties, at least to get better known. It's a much better publicity scheme.

[Chopper]

pay to play is just wrong!

[Rocker949]

Originally Posted by Chuck King

Those gigs are not real gigs; that is Band Fantasy Camp. You're paying somebody to let you get up on their stage and act like rock stars. Depending on where you are, it may be the only way to get stage time. But, "gigs" like that are not really going to give you any exposure because the only people who come to them are your friends, i.e., people who already know about your band and like you. If you're on a bill with a bunch of other bands, theoretically you can play for those other bands and some of their fans, but in my experience people come for their friends' bands and leave immediately afterwards---they're not usually interested in hearing anybody else.

Clubs that put shows like that together also tend to not pay much attention to whether the bands on the bill are a good fit with each other, so you probably won't even have the advantage of playing for people who might like you.

Any band that can get 25 paying customers to a gig can get a real gig. Bars put together those ticket deals knowing that in reality the bands are not going to draw that many people and will end up paying for the tickets themselves.

Try to play for parties, at least to get better known. It's a much better publicity scheme.

+1

[Tylerrr51]

i think thats terrible, for our upcoming show if we sell 75 tickets we get to play on the main stage of Webster theater in Hartford CT. Im gonna work my a$s off selling tickets but Id also rather not have anything to worry about and enjoy myself that night.

[Richland123]

There are no pay to play clubs in my area and no clubs that require bands to sell tickets. If there were, the bands would not perform there. A few years ago, I shifted many of my band's bookings toward private clubs and it has worked out very well for us along with some regular bars concerts, festivals, etc. we play. Over the next 8 weeks, we have 14 gigs and 13 of them are in private clubs for guaranteed pay and no ticket sales. Makes things much simpler for us.

[Gearhead17]

You know, if bars would help bands by giving a great selection of drink specials and/or no cover at the door MORE OFTEN, I think both parties would benefit greatly. Your band can gain more fans and the bar will have a busier night serving drinks. Do that a few more times and pretty soon the bar will be packed and your band is much more popular.

[Jason P Bass]

This thread warms my heart.

100% of the "controversy" is because people fail to realize that small time bands (at least 95% of talkbass) fall into two groups.

The first group plays primarily covers and is trying to make a profit when they perform. They want to get paid for their work - their best environment is probably a bar, and some kind of a kitchen usually helps.

The second group plays primarily originals and is trying to build a fanbase when they perform. Their project is hopelessly in the red and making a couple hundred bucks won't make any difference. They want to play on cool stages, with lights, with a good crowd, so they can get photos taken, and hopefully sell some merch.

Now, the first group would be INSANE to take a typical "pay to play" gig. It's completely contrary to their mission - get paid for your work. But the second group has a real incentive here - if the venue has a cool stage, if you share a bill that can draw people, if you can share your original music with 200 new people, if you can put a famous club on your resume, and you're already $18,000 in the hole, what's another $250? If you're ANY good you can move 25 tickets anyway.

So what's the deal?

It is a very effective screening process. If you throw up in your mouth at the thought of selling 25 tickets, then the club doesn't want you, and you don't want them. Bliss. You're probably busy making WAY more money anyway.

But my band isn't trying to make money from a gig, we're trying to build a fanbase that will purchase merchandise and, eventually, will reliably purchase tickets to see us play. It's a whole different mission.

Although I miss the days of playing covers and actually bringing home some $$$

edit - we cleared something like $400 from a pay-to-play gig last Saturday. Put that in the books - kaching! - we're up to -$22,000 for 2010! Sweet! Let's book another 50 shows and we'll break even! Ha.

[Jason P Bass]

Originally Posted by test dude

B) No Ticket Sales - $50 deposit needed at booking of show.
First 20ppl paying @ the door goes to (the club). Rest to the band.

We dont even care about the money, We just want to play shows. This is rediculous!

You guys just want to play shows... so put up $50 and get your people to come out. If nobody shows, you're out $50 and had a great time. Boo hoo? If a couple people pay the cover, you'll break even or better.

I know we all come from different economic backgrounds... but is $50 really WAY TOO MUCH to risk for your entire band?

To be honest, this arrangement sounds very reasonable to me - UNLESS you are a cover band trying to be paid for your work.

[test dude]

We'll as of now I got the name of a kid that does booking on the island. He has the hook ups for large venues and ask's us to draw crowd's of 15 or so which is reasonable. We'll I recieved an email today, and to put in short we could play with The Misfits, haha. It will be our second "big" show out. We've barely played live so far, but are tight!

I think it'd be a nice way to draw some potential fan's

[hrodbert696]

If the band is just hobbyists who are eager for the sheer chance to play, can't the band just go to an open mic and play for free? The whole thing is absurd.