Artificial harmonies vs the real deal.

[PopaWoody]

The new line of auto harmony stomp boxes has been on my radar for a while now. Not for a lack of being able to harmonize as a band, just as an added dimension to our performances. so I did some research. Watching these two clips of a seven bridges road cover, the first one by four guys with four guitars, the second with one guy a guitar and the TC Electronics helicon Voice Live 2.

TB, you tell me what sounds better and your take on using one of these in your band. Maybe some can shed some light on this and any perceived crowd feedback would be most welcome. Digitech Vocalist or TC Helicon

Eagles cover - Seven Bridges Road - YouTube

Seven Bridges Road.Eagles cover.TC HELICON Voicelive 2 - YouTube

EDIT: Adding my take; the natural harmonies sound more human to my ears. Better, yes to an extent. In this clip you can hear someone off key at one point. But I can accept that because their overall performace was pretty damn good. However the stomp boxes make one person sound pretty vibrant..used in the right context

[KenHR]

The "real deal" harmonies sound better to me, but I wouldn't spit at the electronic box, either.

I imagine that, in a full band context, the artificial-ness of the harmonizer would be masked (and honestly, only musicians in the average crowd would really give a poop).

[lowfreq33]

The artificial harmony sounds like what it is. Maybe could pass in a dense mix with at least one real harmony involved, but not with a single instrument like in the video.

[PopaWoody]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

The artificial harmony sounds like what it is. Maybe could pass in a dense mix with at least one real harmony involved, but not with a single instrument like in the video.

That is what I am thinking of doing, using the stomp on my mic...as I mostly do lower harmonies under our female lead, this would allow me to set up a higher harmony to add another dimension when our guitarist is playing something complicated. Our drummer does high harmony on a lot of our covers.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by PopaWoody

That is what I am thinking of doing, using the stomp on my mic...as I mostly do lower harmonies under our female lead, this would allow me to set up a higher harmony to add another dimension when our guitarist is playing something complicated. Our drummer does high harmony on a lot of our covers.

If you use a harmonizer that listens to the chords and creates a harmony based on that, plugging it into your bass to create vocals harmonies could get you mixed results unless you're playing chords.

If you're playing the root of an A minor and the harmonizer gives you an A major, the harmonies will sound out of tune.

And if you forget to stomp the box and turn off the harmonies before you talk to the audience, you will sound like a robot.

If you're a natural harmony singer or have a hard time singing the melody, the harmonizer will mess you up unless you're singing the melody note. If you sing the harmony, then the harmonizer will add a pitch above or below that that may not be in tune. For example, if you're singing the 3rd and the harmonizer adds a third above that, it will be a minor 6th which will sound dissonant.

[stepswork4me]

I would like to hear more from the harmonizer before passin judgement. The guy's whole sound is too wet.... over saturated with chorus/rever.... to do a good comparison.

[Munjibunga]

The artificial flat sucks. Our lead guitarist has one and we've hired a backup singer to get him to stop using it.

[Bassamatic]

The TC unit is quite good. We have 2 Harmony Gs and use them quite a lot. Of course real is better, but we only have 2 singers - it is the only way to get the good backup harmonies. Use a lot of reverb and keep the volume from being too loud and it sounds better and more natural. They are awesome asnd very effective when you can connect it to a MIDI keyboard and create various vocal chords while you are singing.

The doubling adds a nice thickening to the lead vocals.

[pklima]

I'm a big fan of blatantly artificial sounding harmonies that consist of a bunch of singers (or one overdubbed singer) run through a lot of compression and autotune, but I still don't like these kinds of boxes. They're the boring kind of artificial, somehow.

[PopaWoody]

Originally Posted by jive1

If you use a harmonizer that listens to the chords and creates a harmony based on that, plugging it into your bass to create vocals harmonies could get you mixed results unless you're playing chords.

If you're playing the root of an A minor and the harmonizer gives you an A major, the harmonies will sound out of tune.

And if you forget to stomp the box and turn off the harmonies before you talk to the audience, you will sound like a robot.

If you're a natural harmony singer or have a hard time singing the melody, the harmonizer will mess you up unless you're singing the melody note. If you sing the harmony, then the harmonizer will add a pitch above or below that that may not be in tune. For example, if you're singing the 3rd and the harmonizer adds a third above that, it will be a minor 6th which will sound dissonant.

Everything I have read says "do not use with a bass, keyboards are preferred and a guitar will work as well as long as the root and major or minor third is present". Apparently these units can detect the harmonies correctly and apply the correct third, fifth and octave.

I've also read that it can be a bit of a steep learning curve, some people find them a breeze without a tracking source as long as you nail your key. Tough call here.

[M0ses]

The fake doesn't sound good at all to me, or come anywhere close to fooling me.
Call me a snob, and you'd probably be justified. I've got a degree in music performance, and have extremely detailed knowledge about real four part harmony.

[Hellbastard]

I'd rather have more people singing, but the TC unit works pretty well. That is if you connect it to an instrument that gives it the full info on the quality of the chord you're playing. As Jive said if you connect a bass and you only play roots, you risk having the unit thinking a major chord when what ou wanted was a minor chord.

[Tanner5382]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

The artificial flat sucks.

Agreed. Sounds awful.

[lowfreq33]

I could see it working if you set it to do a fifth above the lead vocal while another singer does the third, and keep it low in the mix. Otherwise no.

[mellowinman]

I feel a lot like an NRA member on this one.

"From my cold dead fingers..."

There is nothing that would make me use artificial harmonies in place of real ones.

[Tupac]

Whoa, that was a lot of guitards all in one room!


Seriously though, I have to admit, I was very pleasantly surprised with the fake one. It might look a little funny using that live, but it sounds like an excellent substitute. Ideally, that's what a group of professionals harmonizing try to sound like anyway.

[Marko5657]

The fake is better than nothing, or bad singers.

I played a couple times with guys who used one, but off of the backup singer’s voice, not the lead singer, and I think it sounds more natural that way.

[oldcatfish]

I used to own a digitech one, and I know one other musician that still uses one. If dialed in correctly, and they are connected to a guitar or keyboard...as long as the singer sings the main melody---they sound very good in a band mix. There does need to be at least one real backing vocalist for the audience to be receptive though.

Where most people go wrong---having the harmonies mixed to high, overusing the harmonies, and accidentally leaving them on in unwanted song sections.

[Factor88]

Originally Posted by Marko5657

The fake is better than nothing, or bad singers.

+1,000,000

I don't think anyone would suggest that if you have 3-4 singers in your band who all can cop harmony parts great, you should ditch that in favor of a box. Like any tool, it has a proper application.

[VitalSigns]

Could be good to have if a singer gets sick or something happens to where they can't sing. I could also see it being used in a creative way for a song.

But natural vocals are better IMO.