ASCAP royalties & cover tune trouble?

[totallyfrozen]

Hey,
Just this summer, we've started seeing some trouble around town (Anchorage, Alaska). A very well-known oil company (who is commonly identified only by two initials) decided that they were cancelling the band who had been hired to play one of their company picnics. This particular band had been doing this gig every year for a number of years. Well, the oil company had a change of personnel in a particular office recently and the "new" attorney in that position stated that due to ASCAP regulations, the oil company would have to pay royalties to ASCAP for every cover tune the band covered.

Since then (a couple of weeks ago), there have been other annual shows and gigs that are being cancelled by other companies because they also are referring to the ASCAP royalty costs.

Have any of you guys every had an issue with this?
Have any of you cover bands every been told you have to pay ASCAP royalties for the songs you play?

This one is news to me...and it's starting to take a toll on this city's music scene this summer.

If this idea takes hold, then NO cover bands will get any gigs anywhere! This oil company is so globally large that this could potentially start to affect other areas of the country. Now from what I've been told. This is may not be a legitimate concern for the oil company; however, since I'm not an attorney and the guy who started this panic IS...I'll assume for now that he may be right.

----------------------
After seeing some of the replies to this post, I thought I might edit to add some more info:
1) The scenario that I'm referring to is a company picnic for employees and there is NO cost or cover charge for anyone to attend the picnic.
2) This is an OUTDOOR event so there isn't really any venue. This is not hosted at a local or city park. The oil company has a very large grass park (approx 3 acres or so) on their own property where they host these picnics annually.
3) These picnics are generally considered to be "private" functions. I have attended 2 of these picnics myself (not as a performer) and they DO have security guards there. They are professionally dressed and polite; however, they are there to make sure that ONLY people who have an employee badge (and their families) are admitted to the function (as far as I've been told anyway).

[Rick Auricchio]

Typically, any venue that hires cover bands pays ASCAP an annual fee. There is no "per-song" fee. The annual fee may be dependent on how many events/gigs are held at the venue; I'm not sure how it's calculated, but it's one fee.

Sounds like ASCAP thinks they can take after the record companies and shake down people for money.

[xgator4u]

I suggest you play in a venue that already has an annual license with A.S.C.A.P., this will include any place that has a juke box, hires D.J's, Karaoke,live cover bands etc. PRIVATE party's, where there is no profit derived are exempt from this license requirement. For further peace of mind go to www.A.S.C.A.P.com

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by xgator4u

I suggest you play in a venue that already has an annual license with A.S.C.A.P., this will include any place that has a juke box, hires D.J's, Karaoke,live cover bands etc. PRIVATE party's, where there is no profit derived are exempt from this license requirement. For further peace of mind go to www.A.S.C.A.P.com

What he said! Furthermore, that Attorney should have connected with an Entertainment Attorney and gotten more facts!

[John Wentzien]

Sounds like they could pay their ASCAP fee for a long time by firing that lawer!

[the yeti]

sounds like they're wanting to stop or scale down the corporate outings and using that as an excuse. i bet the truth never even occured to them as an option.

[DeluxeRed]

Let me take the other side, just cuz I'm a pain. This is not an attack against any particular poster, but allow me to rephrase...

What you are saying is that the oil company finally came to its senses, realized they were stealing money from songwriters and music publishers, and decided it would be a good idea for them to stop doing so?

And other companies may be swayed to also start respecting the hard work of composers and publishers and stop stealing from them, as well?

And your concern is that this may make it difficult for other thieves to keep stealing?

Is that what is being said?

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

Let me take the other side, just cuz I'm a pain. This is not an attack against any particular poster, but allow me to rephrase...

What you are saying is that the oil company finally came to its senses, realized they were stealing money from songwriters and music publishers, and decided it would be a good idea for them to stop doing so?

And other companies may be swayed to also start respecting the hard work of composers and publishers and stop stealing from them, as well?

And your concern is that this may make it difficult for other thieves to keep stealing?

Is that what is being said?

FUNNY!
Yeah, maybe the oil company came to its senses and wants to stop stealing money from hard working people. That sounds about right! I can't wait until gas is back to only 80 cents a gallon!

Most of the posts so far have been pretty much echoing what people have been saying around here.This story/complaint came from another guy in town who is a member of a musician's network that I belong to. This story isn't referring to a situation that I'm in, personally.
I understand about the annual ASCAP "subscription" that you guys are referring to. These lost gigs are pretty much all charity events and company picnics (as far as I know); just annual stuff that's not associated with an ASCAP paying bar/night club.

Personally, I think this attorney might be going overboard (unless they actually received a letter from ASCAP that no one's heard about). These annual picnic gigs have been going on for YEARS and no one has had an issue with it before. I take it that no one else has had this "issue" pop up then?

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

What you are saying is that the oil company finally came to its senses, realized they were stealing money from songwriters and music publishers, and decided it would be a good idea for them to stop doing so?

How exactly is the oil company stealing from songwriters by paying a band to play at a picnic? There's no profit- it's all cost for them.

[DeluxeRed]

Too bad this was an "oil company" since they are so easy to demonize. Substitute some goody-two-shoes organization instead and realize that it has to apply equally to all.

If a corporation puts on an event, they expect a return. Either direct, say, admission or profit on concessions, or indirect, through increased sales (if they're schmoozing at a marketing event) or increased productivity (which is why you reward employees with company picnics).

Either way, the band and the sponsor are gaining by not having to create their own music by stealing someone else's. Unless they want to pay for it. There wouldn't even be a discussion about them using cover bands unless the songs had already been written--and that work belongs to someone else.

[the yeti]

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

Too bad this was an "oil company" since they are so easy to demonize. Substitute some goody-two-shoes organization instead and realize that it has to apply equally to all.

If a corporation puts on an event, they expect a return. Either direct, say, admission or profit on concessions, or indirect, through increased sales (if they're schmoozing at a marketing event) or increased productivity (which is why you reward employees with company picnics).

Either way, the band and the sponsor are gaining by not having to create their own music by stealing someone else's. Unless they want to pay for it. There wouldn't even be a discussion about them using cover bands unless the songs had already been written--and that work belongs to someone else.

THAT"S CORRECT, YOU'RE ABSOLUTLY RIGHT!

[dmusic148]

Please- spare me. It's a once a year party, big friggen deal. Nobody's going hungry because of it. It's not like it's a nightclub featuring cover bands 2-3 nights a week. There IS a difference.

[Steve]

Every Alaskan get's a nice check from the states oil revenues without having to lift a finger don't they?

I'd be happy to trade that check for all the money I've ever made gigging for big oil.

[JansenW]

ASCAP has agreements for special events. How much was ASCAP asking for this one time annual event (for perhaps <50 songs)?

No royalty amount = Not the real issue

[the yeti]

Originally Posted by Steve

Every Alaskan get's a nice check from the states oil revenues without having to lift a finger don't they?

yeah but they have to live in alaska...

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by totallyfrozen

Have any of you guys every had an issue with this?
Have any of you cover bands every been told you have to pay ASCAP royalties for the songs you play?

That's not correct. A venue pays an annual licensing fee to ASCAP ... not the performers.

[DeluxeRed]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Please- spare me. It's a once a year party, big friggen deal. Nobody's going hungry because of it. It's not like it's a nightclub featuring cover bands 2-3 nights a week. There IS a difference.

Now you're just talking quantity, but apparently agree with the premise. So where do you draw the line? 1 time? Three? Twenty? 150? (~3 times a week for a year). If it's your income that is compromised, how much are you willing to give away just so you don't inconvenience some corporate picnic? More than that...who do you want drawing that line? Who do you want to sit there and say It's OK to steal you song here but not there?

There is nothing unfair about having to always pay for goods. Not paying even once IS unfair (if it is your pocket being picked). Any other position is just trying to rationalize stealing. (Is it ok to steal your bass if I only do it once a year?)

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

Now you're just talking quantity, but apparently agree with the premise. So where do you draw the line? 1 time?

Yes, 1 time. Doing this once a year affects no one.

[DeluxeRed]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

Yes, 1 time. Doing this once a year affects no one.

Yes, it does. It reduces the cost to the band or whomever hires them, which increases their return. At the expense of whomever wrote the original material that is NOT getting compensated. Money that should be going one place went to somewhere else. That is an effect. It just doesn't affect you.

Just because the rip-off has been going on for a while doesn't justify it. Just because it doesn't seem to be very large doesn't justify it. It's still a rip-off. But some people are ok with stealing--as long as they're not the ones getting ripped-off.

[fishsticks]

Originally Posted by totallyfrozen

If this idea takes hold, then NO cover bands will get any gigs anywhere!

GREAT NEWS! To the Folks that write and play originals and want to get better paying gigs.