ASCAP royalties & cover tune trouble?

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by JansenW

I imagine that the ASCAP royalty fee for a once-a-year picnic would be around $50.00.

Do you how much royalty your company was asked to pay for this event?

Well, to get down the details, it's not MY company. I work for a company that is contracted by this oil giant.

No, I don't know how much they were asked to pay.

[hamertek98]

As far as bars go, doesn't ascap charge $4.00 a head as far as seating capacity, wich covers a year? 100 seater = $400.00. Years ago they would go after prominent cover bands. Nowadays they go after bars cause bars have assets.

[RichardCranium]

The band I was most recently in was scheduled to play a couple of gigs at this bar. (they booked us sight-unseen which is another story for another day.) Nothing out of the ordinary we were just going to be the Thursday night band.

2 days before the first show the drummer got an e-mail from the promoter saying he had to cancel us. Reason? The club wasn't paying it's ASCAP fees and couldn't have cover bands. They have original bands on the weekends and I guess they wanted someone to play during the week but didn't look into it that thoroughly.

Was a blessing in disguise because we had no business at that point playing gigs and avoided an undeniable trainwreck.

[Rocker949]

Originally Posted by fishsticks

GREAT NEWS! To the Folks that write and play originals and want to get better paying gigs.

+1

[QORC]

The attorney is a dork. The chances of someone coming after a venue or a band for these royalties is almost zero.

[QORC]

Originally Posted by fishsticks

GREAT NEWS! To the Folks that write and play originals and want to get better paying gigs.

I guess this is your fantasy since it is the only way to get people to listen to your music?

Honestly, even if that were the case (and that will never be the case -- there will always be cover bands), these bars still wouldn't hire you. They'd get a DJ, a jukebox, or nothing.

[Depth_Charge]

Originally Posted by QORC

The attorney is a dork. The chances of someone coming after a venue or a band for these royalties is almost zero.

Class action?

[nortonrider]

Can anyone name me a musician that has never played a tune written by another person?

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Can anyone name me a musician that has never played a tune written by another person?

There's probably a few people who consider themselves musicians whilst actually being incapable of playing a tune written by another person.

Interesting discussion on the ASCAP arrangements. I think the situation is pretty much the same here with the PRS.

[dandbassman]

As a gigging musician playing covertunes for 35 years, only in the last three years have I lost gigs where venues reported they were approached by the music police who threatened legal action unless they paid shakedown money. One venue was a campground where our band was the only band ever performing and we played three gigs a year, Memorial Day Sunday, the Fourth of July, and Labor Day Sunday. We got four hundred dollars per gig. We were told that the campground had to discontinue having music because they were asked to pay $400 a year for a music license. Another venue is a family run Italian Restaurant where they are trying to expand their bar business, so far unsuccesfully, by having live music. These are three hundred dollar gigs for us. The restaurant has not gotten back to us with any details, but they say they have been contacted about a music license and they have indicated that our future gigs are at risk if they cannot afford the license. It is clear from the amount of business they do that they are not making very much money as a restaurant or "niteclub". These situations put the future of cover bands at risk and limit the available venues where we may perform. Is not the cover band doing a service to the composer and others involved in production by further publicizing the material? Is there no concept of "professional courtesy" in connection with music performances of cover material and the sources from which cover musicians learn the songs; from recordings, sheet music, OLGA or whatever sources, legal or not that the "starving (cover) musician" can access? Has ASCAP stepped up enforcement in niteclubs because it is easier than going after teen agers illegally downloading? The working musician is hurting out there and this stuff is not helping us !

[Justice]

ASCAP does not go after the downloaders, RIAA does.

My friend just rececntly bought a bar and has been debating over the ASCAP fees to have live music (cover bands)

The yearly fee would be $1000 (according to him) and its not a very large place.

[dingbass]

Originally Posted by DeluxeRed

Now you're just talking quantity, but apparently agree with the premise. So where do you draw the line? 1 time? Three? Twenty? 150? (~3 times a week for a year). If it's your income that is compromised, how much are you willing to give away just so you don't inconvenience some corporate picnic? More than that...who do you want drawing that line? Who do you want to sit there and say It's OK to steal you song here but not there?

There is nothing unfair about having to always pay for goods. Not paying even once IS unfair (if it is your pocket being picked). Any other position is just trying to rationalize stealing. (Is it ok to steal your bass if I only do it once a year?)

Sorry man but this argument is ridiculous. No one is steeling anything. Guys in cover bands aren't playing other people's music and claiming it is their own. Yes in many cases band who play covers are being paid but so do Dj's that just spin records.

In academia many people who publish articles use sources to support there own position and profit from them by being publishing; in fact if you don't have support for your position you won't be published; Should this not be allowed either?

I don't know this all just seems a little mellow dramatic for me.

Edit: I must add that this does not mean that i think songwriters and composers should not be paid for there efforts. I just feel that cover bands are really just small fish.

[BluesWalker]

Originally Posted by dingbass

In academia many people who publish articles use sources to support there own position and profit from them by being publishing; in fact if you don't have support for your position you won't be published; Should this not be allowed either?

No one in academics is paid to publish articles in journals. They publish original research and will reference a precedence in their field. They can even use patented material in their research as long as they are not selling a product.

[BluesWalker]

Originally Posted by hamertek98

As far as bars go, doesn't ascap charge $4.00 a head as far as seating capacity, wich covers a year? 100 seater = $400.00. Years ago they would go after prominent cover bands. Nowadays they go after bars cause bars have assets.

I believe that if a band has not incorporated itself, usually through a LLC, the band members can be held personally responsible for damage awards.

[Crazyeelboy]

Aside from what actually happened with this party, the more interesting issues are 1) how the rules are so poorly understood and 2) how the rules intended to protect the rights of songwriters and other creative people are under stress in "real life".

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by Justice

My friend just rececntly bought a bar and has been debating over the ASCAP fees to have live music (cover bands)

The yearly fee would be $1000 (according to him) and its not a very large place.

Is your friend planning to have a jukebox or DJs? If so, he will still need a license. It's not only required for ive music.

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by BluesWalker

I believe that if a band has not incorporated itself, usually through a LLC, the band members can be held personally responsible for damage awards.

It's possible, but not in a bar or club setting. The owner of the bar, or the organizer of an event, is responsible for the license. In other words, yes, a band is liable, if they, say, rent a hall and throw a show where they charge a cover, since they're now the organizer of the event (regardless of whether its an LLC or not). But a cover band working in a bar or other venue is not liable, it's the venue owner who is.

Yes, "technically," everyone involved in the performance is responsible, but the law is enforced by holding the organizer liable for damages. This is all spelled out on the ASCAP website under "FAQs."

[yodedude2]

ya beat me to it. no ascap fees doesn't just mean no cover bands. IT MEANS NO COPYRIGHTED MUSIC MADE AVAILABLE FOR THE PUBLIC WITHOUT CONSENT OF COPYRIGHT HOLDERS. (consent=licensing fees on the behalf of copyright holders for most all music...) so an amplified jukebox would not be okay...someone's ipod over a PA would not be okay...internet streams would not be okay...and so on. if they are enforcing no cover bands due to ascap fees, they should not have any music at all--save originals bands.

so if you find out they are having music, just not paying for a cover band, call ascap and have them busted. let's get this all out front and center, and venues and businesses will see what a great entertainment value good cover bands really are. later, ron

Originally Posted by ChrisB2

Is your friend planning to have a jukebox or DJs? If so, he will still need a license. It's not only required for ive music.