Audition coming up, having doubts with their current tuning

[lostcontrol_]

So, I'm supposed to audition for an all-original female fronted 3 people + missing bass player rock/metal band on Tuesday.

I've got most of the six (simple) songs they gave me covered, but I'm having some doubts about the tuning used, a dropped A (AEADG). I play a 4-string, but I'm open to dedicating a bass to an AEAD tuning (the G-string is used only in one song and I can play around that).

So, I bought a set of DR DDT's and tried out the AEAD on my Ibanez RS-924, but... I hate the dropped A. It sounds muddy to me and I'm not that comfortable with the low level of tension.

The main (and only) reason for them using AEADG, according to what they've told me, is that their guitar is a 7-string tuned to AEADGBE. The guitar player has written all of the songs with the drummer, most of them going in Am.

I already brought the subject up before even practicing the songs, as I had a hunch that it might raise some doubts for me. While they seemed understanding about a new bass player changing the overall tone to an extent, I'm a bit iffy about just showing up and playing the audition in a standard or drop-D tuning instead. Personally, I just don't feel the need to drop to A, as the only reason for it in my eyes seems to be the need for a muddy growl.

Here are some sample recordings they sent me:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7018622/roger/strand.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7018622/roger/thesight.mp3
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7018622/roger/goingdown.mp3

So my main questions are:
- I don't think the drop A is necessary, what do you think?
- Should I respect the original tuning and just try to get comfortable with the low-tension A-string and the slight mud, or should I go with what my gut instinct tells me?

Personally, I think that I'd do just fine with the Ibanez RS924 in standard/drop D, a Big Muff and perhaps a _tiny_ bit of octave pedal, if they feel like they'd be missing the low growl.

Background info:
They were supposed to start gigging this Summer, but then their previous bass player bailed a week before their first planned gig at some local bar. They're set on starting gigging in early 2012/as soon as the new bass player learns the songs. I like the people involved and think that while there are still some rough edges, the songs might be fun to play.

[armywalaby]

After listening to the tunes, if you played in drop d I think you would both be intruding on each others sonic space. If it is an option, you should look into a 5 string and setting it up a whole step down. Some gigs won't leave you a lot of room for your own interpretation.

Personally?

The music sounds like they are about 10 years behind.....this kind of sound was really big in the local scene here when I was in high school, especially with the chick vocalist. I don't know where they plan to play it, because I can't see anyone dancing to it. Not worth purchasing new equipment to play in act that will book an all ages venue where I have to sell tickets to guarantee my $20 pay that doesn't even cover gas to and from the venue. I would pass on it.

[SMILEYSIXX]

In my opinion, very few bands outside the doom metal scene make drop A work. It brings the guitar into the bass's sonic territory and not many people know how to handle that properly.

[AwkwardLoudness]

What's the gauge of your low A string? I use a 0.150" string for low A in the rare cases that I tune that way. Did you widen the nut or do any modifications to the guitar to accomodate this tuning. What speaker cab(s) are you using? Most speaker cabs suck with low A. It's also likely that the pickups on your bass are not suited for low A tuning.

The AEAD tuning is not absolutely necessary. You could play in standard EADG, but make sure that the guitarist is not EQ'd with a lot of lows.

Originally Posted by SMILEYSIXX

In my opinion, very few bands outside the doom metal scene make drop A work. It brings the guitar into the bass's sonic territory and not many people know how to handle that properly.

Agreed

[jaywa]

7-string guitars... yuck.

Get that low sh*t out of my space.

[lostcontrol_]

Thanks for all the advice!

Originally Posted by armywalaby

If it is an option, you should look into a 5 string and setting it up a whole step down.

I'm not really keen on buying a 5-string for a project that might not fit me (or I might not fit the project) in the end. If the gig ends up interesting and I'll somehow end up convinced that such a tuning is for the best... then maybe. And that's one huge maybe. Unless someone would trade my G&L L2000 trib' for the L2500 version

Originally Posted by armywalaby

The music sounds like they are about 10 years behind.....this kind of sound was really big in the local scene here when I was in high school, especially with the chick vocalist. I don't know where they plan to play it, because I can't see anyone dancing to it. Not worth purchasing new equipment to play in act that will book an all ages venue where I have to sell tickets to guarantee my $20 pay that doesn't even cover gas to and from the venue. I would pass on it.

Same here on the high school thing, that's probably one of the reasons why I'm interested. Secretly, I'm still a sucker for some of the rock/metal acts (f.ex. Sentenced, earlier 69 Eyes, sometimes even some Cradle of Filth) of '98-'01 and listen to some of them when no-one's around

The other main reasons are getting to play with different people for a change and that I haven't played a live gig yet. Woke up to the interest in playing a bit later in life Will the band become big nationwide/internationally? I doubt it. Will they get local gigs? Probably. If it's metal-ish, there's always a good chance (I'm in Helsinki, Finland). The whole band thing is and will most likely be more of a hobby, and with a reasonably good dayjob I have no compelling needs to cover my expenses by playing.

Originally Posted by SMILEYSIXX

In my opinion, very few bands outside the doom metal scene make drop A work.

Word.

Originally Posted by AwkwardLoudness

What's the gauge of your low A string? I use a 0.150" string for low A in the rare cases that I tune that way. Did you widen the nut or do any modifications to the guitar to accomodate this tuning. What speaker cab(s) are you using? Most speaker cabs suck with low A. It's also likely that the pickups on your bass are not suited for low A tuning.

The DR DDT set went to 0.135, which was the heaviest gauge available atm. without ordering. I widened the nut, checked the intonation, string height and pickup height. Played through an Ashdown MAG300 with Ashdown 1x15" + 2x10". The pickups on the Ibanez RS924 are the originals from ~1979. Regardless of this project I'm going for an Orange Terror Bass 500 later this year, unless something better comes along in the same price range.

Right now I think I'll go with my gut and play the audition with standard EADG, and ask if the guitar lows can be eq'd a bit lower.

[AwkwardLoudness]

Originally Posted by lostcontrol_

Right now I think I'll go with my gut and play the audition with standard EADG, and ask if the guitar lows can be eq'd a bit lower.

No, the guitar needs to EQ higher to stay out of the low so the two of you don't step on one another's frequency slots.

Originally Posted by lostcontrol_

The DR DDT set went to 0.135, which was the heaviest gauge available atm. without ordering. I widened the nut, checked the intonation, string height and pickup height. Played through an Ashdown MAG300 with Ashdown 1x15" + 2x10". The pickups on the Ibanez RS924 are the originals from ~1979. Regardless of this project I'm going for an Orange Terror Bass 500 later this year, unless something better comes along in the same price range.

You'd need to overhaul that whole rig for doing any low A with authority. It's best to stick with standard tuning or something similar.

[lostcontrol_]

Originally Posted by AwkwardLoudness

No, the guitar needs to EQ higher to stay out of the low so the two of you don't step on one another's frequency slots.

Sorry, I lost my thought for a bit there and mistyped. I meant less low frequencies on the guitar

[Schizo Sapiens]

In my opinion standard tuned bass just won't work with Drop-A guitars. When i get home i'll elaborate on this.

P. S. And you already did AEAD set up, at least give it a try with the band. Don't judge it by sound of just the bass at home.

[badstonebass]

Didn't know people still used 7 string guitars. In fact I don't know anyone who OWNS one.

[Never_grew_up]

For any audition you want to look & sound your best. To me that means doing what you're most comfortable with so you can be relaxed and confident in your playing. It sounds to me like the standard EADG tuning w/an octave pedal is your best bet, at least for the audition. You can bring up the idea of buying a 5-string if they offer you the gig (and if you want the gig). You can also bring up the idea of the guitarist EQ-ing out of your frequency range if you take the gig.

[Schizo Sapiens]

Originally Posted by badstonebass

Didn't know people still used 7 string guitars.

Just in case:

PSSSSSST

But you're right: 7-strings is so 90's, people are using 8-string guitars now

[6fastforward9]

Originally Posted by jaywa

7-string guitars... yuck.

Get that low sh*t out of my space.

Originally Posted by badstonebass

Didn't know people still used 7 string guitars. In fact I don't know anyone who OWNS one.

‪Tosin Abasi with the EMG 808X‬‏ - YouTube

IMO a 4 string bass should never go lower than drop B with a .125 gauge. So if you really want to tune in drop A without sacrificing tone you'll need to get yourself a 5 string bass with a .135 gauge.

I doubt they will want to try a drop D tuning because the singer might have to redo her vocals and if you're used to playing/practicing in standard E, tuning back and forth from drop A to E is going to be a mess.

[Schizo Sapiens]

Originally Posted by 6fastforward9

IMO a 4 string bass should never go lower than drop B with a .125 gauge.

Could you please explain this? Are you saying that 4-string with .135 set won't work for drop A tuning but 5-string with .135 set will?

I doubt that presence of high G-string would make such a difference.

BTW, we both posted Tosin in response to 7-string haters

[Gallagher]

Id pass on the audition. This kinda thing isn't worth you investing in a 5 string.

[lostcontrol_]

Thanks for the replies! The audition ended up being on Monday, so here's a follow-up:

I went with standard EADG, and decided to use my G&L L2000 Trib instead of the Ibanez, giving me a brighter and a bit more modern sound. I didn't touch the Boss octave pedal I had, there was simply no need to do so. Used a Tech21 Comptortion & EHX Muff for some growl, it worked out fine. I played through one of their amps, a random Laney amp with a 4x10"(?) cab. The guitar player had already opted to reduce his lows, so no problem there.

The whole thing worked out great, a lot better than I expected. There were no noticable clashes in frequencies, and I even managed to go up in some sections with ease without getting mixed up with the guitar. I think they're more set on having the extra A on a guitar for some heavier guitar + bass action, not so much for an abysmal bass growl.

Even though being able to hear clear bass lines took them a bit of getting used to, they thought it sounded good and fit the overall feeling etc. All in all, I had fun, they had fun and liked my playing, so now I wait for the decision - they still have one more audition to go through before they decide, this was mentioned before my audition so no prob there.

I guess I have a decent chance for getting the gig, and I think they might be surprisingly open to a change in the tuning of the bass. Which I like

Might go for a 5-string at some point anyway, tried out a sweet MTD fiver yesterday at a local shop... I'd probably stay away from a dropped A in any case though, at least in this kind of music.

[6fastforward9]

Originally Posted by Schizo Sapiens

Could you please explain this? Are you saying that 4-string with .135 set won't work for drop A tuning but 5-string with .135 set will?

I doubt that presence of high G-string would make such a difference.

BTW, we both posted Tosin in response to 7-string haters

Haha high five! The thing with a .135 gauge is that it might not fit in the nut on a 4 string bass and you could end up damaging it or having tuning problems. I'm using a .125 gauge myself and the last string barely got in.

[Schizo Sapiens]

Originally Posted by 6fastforward9

The thing with a .135 gauge is that it might not fit in the nut on a 4 string bass

Oh, i understand that, but:

1. lostcontrol_ had already widened the nut, so what's done is done .
2. It's a normal thing when you decide to convert certain bass to lower tuning. And if you decide to go back to standard, you can replace the nut later.

But i agree somewhat, i would prefer the 5-string myself (as i'd like to play standard tuned music and B/DropA music on one bass). But i don't see much problem with taking one 4-string bass (when you have several) and converting it to AEAD tuning.

[6fastforward9]

I missed the part where TC said he could dedicate a bass to the tuning and that he had 2 . That's why I didn't bring up the option to change the nut. Good luck making it into the band TC.

[armywalaby]

Originally Posted by Schizo Sapiens

Just in case:

PSSSSSST

But you're right: 7-strings is so 90's, people are using 8-string guitars now

I like that a lot more than this.