Auditions, How To Weed Out Flakes

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by bluewine

There have been several threads about auditioning recently.

I thought it would be productive to examine an ad.

More than likely we all will see and interpret the ad differently.

The purpose of my thread is to help guys new to auditioning weed out bogus opportunities

Here's a fictional ad where I have placed a number of red flags;

• Established band looking for a new bass guitar player.

Unless they're in a really small community or an area without much of a music scene, 'established' bands tend to have a network of local musicians. If it's in a bigger city, I'm not sure how "established" they might be if they're reaching out to CL, or maybe they've established themselves as a crappy band.

• We have been playing originals for about 4 years, and have decided to change over to - Current Rock/Alternative covers. Anything from Lady Ga Ga to the Black Keys

Other then they called Lady Gaga rock (as previously mentioned), it scares me when a band really wants to cover a huge range of genres. Most (but not all but a very, very few) "jack of all trade" bands really tend to be a master of none. The best bands really try to hone in on being the best at a certain genre, or maybe two. It's also easier to draw nice crowds when you really hone in a "sound" that really works well!

• We want to have fun and make some money

HAH! Which one do you want, 'cause you can't have both! (Usually, that is...)

• We are all in our mid 30's.

There's absolutely nothing "red flag"-y about this, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm in my mid- to late-thirties. Nothing wrong with this at all, as far as I can see! Nope...

• Practice twice a week.

For a cover band that's not a full-time pro band? That sort of implies that the players abilities are maybe less then stellar, in my experience.... Good (depending on your definition of "good") players can put on a 3 hour show with little or no practice at all and having just met the rest of the guys that day.

What else you got????

OOH YEAH!!!!!!

[hdracer]

Established band looking for a new bass guitar player.

We have been playing originals for about 4 years

Established for 4 years but no mention of how often they gig.

We have been playing originals for about 4 years, and have decided to change over to - Current Rock/Alternative covers. Anything from Lady Ga Ga to the Black Keys

4 years as a originals band and you are throwing all that work out to play GA GA?
Ga GA to Black Keys??
Their stuff must have sucked

We want to have fun and make some money

That tells me they hope to someday get out of a members garage and play a gig or two a year.

We are all in our mid 30's.

To me mid 30's means young kids at home and a lot of family life.

Practice twice a week.

4 years and twice a week? Maybe for a originals band but not for a cover band. They have no clue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by jive1

No they won't. They wouldn't want to jeapordize future gigs with an agency or venue if word got out they were out a member.

I respectively disagree.

My opinion, they would. I see it all the time.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

Unless they're in a really small community or an area without much of a music scene, 'established' bands tend to have a network of local musicians. If it's in a bigger city, I'm not sure how "established" they might be if they're reaching out to CL, or maybe they've established themselves as a crappy band.

Other then they called Lady Gaga rock (as previously mentioned), it scares me when a band really wants to cover a huge range of genres. Most (but not all but a very, very few) "jack of all trade" bands really tend to be a master of none. The best bands really try to hone in on being the best at a certain genre, or maybe two. It's also easier to draw nice crowds when you really hone in a "sound" that really works well!
HAH! Which one do you want, 'cause you can't have both! (Usually, that is...)
There's absolutely nothing "red flag"-y about this, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm in my mid- to late-thirties. Nothing wrong with this at all, as far as I can see! Nope...

For a cover band that's not a full-time pro band? That sort of implies that the players abilities are maybe less then stellar, in my experience.... Good (depending on your definition of "good") players can put on a 3 hour show with little or no practice at all and having just met the rest of the guys that day.

What else you got????

OOH YEAH!!!!!!

Your pretty much on point, however I would expect guys in their 30s to craft a better ad.

Blue

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by hdracer

Established for 4 years but no mention of how often they gig.

4 years as a originals band and you are throwing all that work out to play GA GA?
Ga GA to Black Keys??
Their stuff must have sucked

That tells me they hope to someday get out of a members garage and play a gig or two a year.

To me mid 30's means young kids at home and a lot of family life.

4 years and twice a week? Maybe for a originals band but not for a cover band. They have no clue

Bingo on all points.

Blue

[jive1]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I respectively disagree.

My opinion, they would. I see it all the time.

Blue

They don't have many high stakes gigs then, or really aren't that established. You won't see an agency band do that, especially if they are replacing a lead vocalist.

The best jobs are never advertised anyway.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by jive1

The best jobs are never advertised anyway.

I agree with that point.

However I'm not sure how it relates to this exercise.

Blue

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by bluewine

however I would expect guys in their 30s to craft a better ad.

Blue

Man, related to that, even though I joined an established act, I'm still recieving replies to my ads from months ago. Many of them are some of the most inarticulate gibberish I've ever read. You don't have to give me Hemmingway when you respond to an ad, but at least make somewhat of an attempt to adhere to the basic rules of writing and grammar.

Since they can't take the time to actually write a cogent response to my ad, I don't waste my time telling them that I'm off the market but thanks for responding.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

Unless they're in a really small community or an area without much of a music scene, 'established' bands tend to have a network of local musicians. If it's in a bigger city, I'm not sure how "established" they might be if they're reaching out to CL, or maybe they've established themselves as a crappy band.

Sometimes it's difficult to get decent players whose schedules match. I landed a sub gig with an established act that was over 10 years old that did the A list clubs because they couldn't find a full-time player who can do their playlist with no rehearsal and do 8-10 shows a month. Until they found a guy that could do it, they had to use subs for a stretch. The band had a deep bench, but sometimes the bench runs out and you have to pick up a guy off the street.

[Depth_Charge]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I agree with that point.

However I'm not sure how it relates to this exercise.

Blue

Based on Jive's standard of "established bands don't advertise" the very placement of an ad in the public domain is a red flag. That's how it relates.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Depth_Charge

Based on Jive's standard of "established bands don't advertise" the very placement of an ad in the public domain is a red flag. That's how it relates.

Cool,

I respect both if your opinions, however my position is it doesn't relate to the exercise in my thread.

Regards

Blue

[MarkMgibson]

Okay, I'll bite:

* Established band looking for a new bass guitar player.

Such a band would offer some idea of the type of gigs they're playing, and how often they gig.

*We have been playing originals for about 4 years, and have decided to change over to - Current Rock/Alternative covers. Anything from Lady Ga Ga to the Black Keys.

That's enough for me. To me, "established" means successful, and if you were successful you wouldn't be changing your whole format. (C'mon now Blue, you lost all credibility with the Lady Gaface reference LOL).

*We want to have fun and make some money.

If they're "established", they should already be making money. "Fun" implies amateur to me in this context, as playing good music with a good band is automatically "fun".

*We are all in our mid 30's.

So what?

*Practice twice a week.

Too much for an established band.

[SeaBassSteve]

Originally Posted by Nev375

Twice a week isn't a red flag to me if the band is wanting to get up to speed fast and cover a large amount of material as well as really get to know the new member.

As the norm of an established working cover band, yeah that's excessive.

We rehearse twice a week, but that may be down to the fact we are doing 80 songs over the course of 10 weeks. (last 3songs learnt this week, the first two gigs are 22nd/23rd dec)

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

Okay, I'll bite:

* Established band looking for a new bass guitar player.

Such a band would offer some idea of the type of gigs they're playing, and how often they gig.

*We have been playing originals for about 4 years, and have decided to change over to - Current Rock/Alternative covers. Anything from Lady Ga Ga to the Black Keys.

That's enough for me. To me, "established" means successful, and if you were successful you wouldn't be changing your whole format. (C'mon now Blue, you lost all credibility with the Lady Gaface reference LOL).

*We want to have fun and make some money.

If they're "established", they should already be making money. "Fun" implies amateur to me in this context, as playing good music with a good band is automatically "fun".

*We are all in our mid 30's.

So what?

*Practice twice a week.

Too much for an established band.

Your right in all points, however I would expect 30 year olds to craft a better ad.

I hope you all read in my original post the ad is fictional.

Blue

[mjac28]

What did I win?

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by mjac28

What did I win?

I don't know, what did you think were red flags and why?

Blue

[RustyAxe]

Originally Posted by bluewine

• Established band looking for a new bass guitar player.

• We have been playing originals for about 4 years, and have decided to change over to - Current Rock/Alternative covers. Anything from Lady Ga Ga to the Black Keys

Established bands don't change genres for the hell of it. Mixed genre, these guys will play anything they think they can.

• We want to have fun and make some money

Hmmm ... usually it take WORK to make some money. This is a garage/basement band.

• We are all in our mid 30's.

And busy with career, family, kids ...

• Practice twice a week.

"Established" bands don't rehearse twice a week.

Share your opinion, what type of opportunity is this?

Typical CL ad. Dreamers, probably. Not an "opportunity" I'd jump at, for sure.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

Established bands don't change genres for the hell of it. Mixed genre, these guys will play anything they think they can.

Hmmm ... usually it take WORK to make some money. This is a garage/basement band.

And busy with career, family, kids ...

"Established" bands don't rehearse twice a week.

Typical CL ad. Dreamers, probably. Not an "opportunity" I'd jump at, for sure.

Nice!

I planted the red flags, you nailed all of them.

Blue

[MostlyBass]

To save everyone's time I like to be specific about the audition like a classical audition -

-You will be allocated 30 minutes (perhaps less - classical can be a few minutes)
-Audition may be cut short if you're not the right fit.
-Please arrive on time and be ready to play with minimal setup.

My band once auditioned a drummer and as soon as he started talking I knew he couldn't play. I told him the song was in 6/8 and he played in 4. I said 'thank you' but the bandleader wanted to play more tunes!! Why??

[bassbully]

The bottom line is screening, both the person auditioning and the band holding them need to screen. Ask questions even the tuff ones before you go out or invite them in.
This will prevent allot of issues most of the time and in my experince make the process a whole lot easier on you or your band.

I can screen a band or posssible person looking to try out quickly over the phone or email..it is not that hard if you ask the right questions.