Auditions, How To Weed Out Flakes

[SteveHeissner]

+1 Agree 100% "No they won't. They wouldn't want to jeapordize future gigs with an agency or venue if word got out they were out a member."

Also, I'd be looking for something such as "Band with gigs on the books needs bass player who can step in immediately..." This tells me they're not stuck in the basement or garage with no gigs.

[MrLenny1]

Sounds like every CL ad I read.Most of those people have never gigged seriously.
Most established bands already know a player if they need to replace someone.
The old standard for a band was if you couldn't make the gig you had to provide a sub.
Lady GaGa to Black Keys? Not unheard of. My buddy has a band that does it all, very well.
He makes $500 on weekends playing that stuff at weddings & functions. It's called WORK.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by MostlyBass

To save everyone's time I like to be specific about the audition like a classical audition -

-You will be allocated 30 minutes (perhaps less - classical can be a few minutes)
-Audition may be cut short if you're not the right fit.
-Please arrive on time and be ready to play with minimal setup.

My band once auditioned a drummer and as soon as he started talking I knew he couldn't play. I told him the song was in 6/8 and he played in 4. I said 'thank you' but the bandleader wanted to play more tunes!! Why??

Nice!

However the thread is about recognizing the red flags in ads not the auditioning process itself.

Regards

Blye

[jive1]

Originally Posted by MrLenny1

Lady GaGa to Black Keys? Not unheard of. My buddy has a band that does it all, very well.
He makes $500 on weekends playing that stuff at weddings & functions. It's called WORK.

Very good point. The big dollar variety bands tend to have 100s of songs on their songlist. Here's a link to one of the top entertainment agencies in this area: http://washingtontalent.com/bands/co...e-event-bands/

Check out the various bands on the list, and go their songlists and you'll see a songlist of 100s of tunes that are Lady Gaga to Black Keys, as well as Sinatra and Hava Nagila.

[nortonrider]

Bluewine:
Just for a change of flavor.......... how about you crafting the "perfect" band ad for us?
(I'd like to see how age has anything to do with the composition.)

What do you think should be in an introductory ad?

[jive1]

Originally Posted by bassbully

The bottom line is screening, both the person auditioning and the band holding them need to screen. Ask questions even the tuff ones before you go out or invite them in.
This will prevent allot of issues most of the time and in my experince make the process a whole lot easier on you or your band.

I can screen a band or posssible person looking to try out quickly over the phone or email..it is not that hard if you ask the right questions.

+1

Reading ads are a lot like poetry. When you try to interpret it and 'read between the lines', you are usually just projecting your own biases, stereotypes, limitations, experiences, POV, etc. onto them. E-mails and phone calls do much more to clarify things, and don't take that much time and effort to do. I'm more concerned with how people act after the ad.

[RandalPinkFloyd]

Well based on the ad, here are the red flags that I see.

"Established band looking for a bass player"
What it means / redflag: Lead singer has abandonment issues, lousy taste in beer, doesn't own a car and needs a place to live. He also needs a PA.

* We have been playing originals for about 4 years, and have decided to change over to - Current Rock/Alternative covers. Anything from Lady Ga Ga to the Black Keys

What this means / red flag: Our guitarist, although portraying himself as an alpha male complete with beard, flannel shirt and timberland boots, privately dresses as a woman. We feel he's about 6 months removed from getting that operation so he can finally be "Stephanie" 24/7 instead late at night at home and online. He needs a new amp because he blew the head on his marshall full stack.


* We want to have fun and make some money
What it means / red flag: Hookers are expensive and we can't keep borrowing money from our parents to pay for this vice. Also, our xbox360 is on the fritz and we need a new one.

* We are all in our mid 30's.
What it means / Red flags: We are in our mid 40's but look like we are in our mid 30's. We don't date woman over 25.

* Practice twice a week.
What it means / red flags: We meet up at the drummers house twice a week to talk about how good we are, how big we're going to be, drink, smoke and play video games. We don't actually do much playing unless playing Beatles Rockband with a little COD Black Ops II counts.



Please post the fictional link to this fictional ad so I can send the fictional band leader some follow up questions. I'm definitely interested in this fictional gig. I could use the fictional experience.

[MostlyBass]

I was thinking of posting that in the ad or telling them before they arrive... It can definitely weed people out. And if you talk a bit about having fun you can get a good mix of responsibility and easy to work with.

[intheory]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Your right in all points, however I would expect 30 year olds to craft a better ad.

I hope you all read in my original post the ad is fictional.

Blue

Expect 30 year olds to be able to craft a better ad?? guess we know different 30 year olds...
As to red flags..they've all pretty much been identified...musical genre...odd and nonsensical (IMO) practice 2 times a week...not without good cause...and mostly...where are the gigs?

[intheory]

Originally Posted by jive1

+1

Reading ads are a lot like poetry. When you try to interpret it and 'read between the lines', you are usually just projecting your own biases, stereotypes, limitations, experiences, POV, etc. onto them. E-mails and phone calls do much more to clarify things, and don't take that much time and effort to do. I'm more concerned with how people act after the ad.

Definitely hard to ascertain the specifics without a phone call or more in depth email conversation, agreed.

[DwaynieAD]

Originally Posted by bluewine

There have been several threads about auditioning recently.

I thought it would be productive to examine an ad.

More than likely we all will see and interpret the ad differently.

The purpose of my thread is to help guys new to auditioning weed out bogus opportunities

Here's a fictional ad where I have placed a number of red flags;

• Established band looking for a new bass guitar player.

• We have been playing originals for about 4 years, and have decided to change over to - Current Rock/Alternative covers. Anything from Lady Ga Ga to the Black Keys

• We want to have fun and make some money

• We are all in our mid 30's.

• Practice twice a week.

Share your opinion, what type of opportunity is this?

Look at each bullet point. What "red flags" do you see.

Blue

the one problem with assuming these are red flags is that not everyone is going to be astute at creating an add for craigslist. I will agree that about 90% of the time your observations will be right, but that other 10% of the time you could be missing out due to preconceived notions.

[jive1]

Just to be Devil's advocate:

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

Established bands don't change genres for the hell of it. Mixed genre, these guys will play anything they think they can.

Sure they do.
- There's plenty of cover bands that have went onto be original bands, i.e. Huey Lewis and the News, Blues Traveller, The Beatles, etc...
- The Cherry Poppin Daddies were a Ska band that caught the Swing revival in the 90s and went that direction to have their biggest hits.
- During the Disco craze, there were a number of bands that jumped that shark including Kiss and Albert King.
- Ray Charles, an icon in R&B, releases a Country and Western album and it's a classic.
- Hootie from the Blowfish now sings Country, and seems to be doing pretty well.

If it can happen at the national level, then why not at the local level?

Hmmm ... usually it take WORK to make some money. This is a garage/basement band.

Work is assumed for a pro band. How would you as an experienced vet feel if someone gave you the 'work speech'? I don't expect to give that speech to guys who have done this for a while.

And busy with career, family, kids ...

Or not. Or they are able to find a balance.
Or they may be really good musicians with some maturity and experience.
Lots of us were making music professionally in our 30s. Why is that in and of itself be a 'Red Flag'?
20s would be flighty, irresponsible, inexperienced, full of drama, and always broke.
40s would be a bunch of guys in midlife crisis with their last gasp of hipness.
50s would be old and set in their ways, and out of touch with what's hip.
60s would make you wonder if they can make it through a gig
30 doesn't look so bad now.

"Established" bands don't rehearse twice a week.

They may only do it in the beginning to get a new player up to speed, or to prepare for a new format.
Or maybe they just like hanging out together and making music. As lovers of music, that shouldn't be such a foreign concept to us.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Your pretty much on point, however I would expect guys in their 30s to craft a better ad.

Blue

I'd expect a guy in his 50s to have better grammar.

[drpepper]

This confuses the opportunity with the advertisement.

It is fact that it's quite common for people to post poorly written ads. For that reason, you can't have confidence that the ad you're reading is an accurate or complete picture. It may or may not be. A great presentation could have nothing behind it, and a poor, incomplete presentation could be the perfect fit for you.

Jumping from that to believing that you can clearly "decode" red flags to arrive at the truth in what is potentially a poorly written description is foolish IMO.

The goal is matching your desires and expectations to an opportunity, not an ad. Yes. The ad is the starting point, but this "exercise" makes it the end game. The ad here is incomplete. Any of the things taken as "red flags" could be misinterpreted and if it were real, it could be an opportunity missed…it could also be bass playing pig in a poke.

Best to take each ad and communicate on any questions or points of clarification and go from there.

[smogg]

Originally Posted by bluewine

There have been several threads about auditioning recently.

I thought it would be productive to examine an ad.

More than likely we all will see and interpret the ad differently.

The purpose of my thread is to help guys new to auditioning weed out bogus opportunities

Here's a fictional ad where I have placed a number of red flags.............

It's pretty obvious that most of the responses to this thread are from players with a few rodeos under their belts. I can see Blues point that those just starting out with little or no band/gigging experience can be drawn in by what I view as a "generic" ad.

When I started out there was no CL. I don't think there were even home PC's yet...lol. One found their way by hooking up with friends, going to jam nights, and networking. This involved real face time so it was much easier to weed through the doo-doo.

Now days many initial introductions are via the internet. This leaves the door wide open for flakes and BSers. Is there a sticky for the newbies for this yet? If not this may well be food for thought for those of us who are used to the processes of responding to ads; networking, auditioning techniques, etc.

Just a thought...
smogg

[nortonrider]

Originally Posted by jive1

Or maybe they just like hanging out together and making music. As lovers of music, that shouldn't be such a foreign concept to us.

Bingo!
I don't really agree with the viewpoint that being a "real" bass player means playing in a band with the focus on making money.

I play because I like playing.
I don't need to have more gigs than you... or make more money at it than you to feel accomplished in what I do.

I kinda like those Ads that state "nothing serious" and "for fun".
It shows that they really just want to make some music.
Nothing wrong with that!

[smogg]

Originally Posted by drpepper

This confuses the opportunity with the advertisement.

It is fact that it's quite common for people to post poorly written ads. For that reason, you can't have confidence that the ad you're reading is an accurate or complete picture. It may or may not be. A great presentation could have nothing behind it, and a poor, incomplete presentation could be the perfect fit for you.

Jumping from that to believing that you can clearly "decode" red flags to arrive at the truth in what is potentially a poorly written description is foolish IMO.

The goal is matching your desires and expectations to an opportunity, not an ad. Yes. The ad is the starting point, but this "exercise" makes it the end game. The ad here is incomplete. Any of the things taken as "red flags" could be misinterpreted and if it were real, it could be an opportunity missed…it could also be bass playing pig in a poke.

Best to take each ad and communicate on any questions or points of clarification and go from there.

Some very good points here. Maybe it would be more helpful for newbies if we tried something along the lines of, "What questions should be asked when responding to a generic ad?"

I'll start:

Where have you played?
How long since your last gig?
What is the bands minimum rate?
Pre established set list or a work in progress?
Is there pending work on the books?
How often do you play out?

just off the top of my head.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by smogg

It's pretty obvious that most of the responses to this thread are from players with a few rodeos under their belts. I can see Blues point that those just starting out with little or no band/gigging experience can be drawn in by what I view as a "generic" ad.

When I started out there was no CL. I don't think there were even home PC's yet...lol. One found their way by hooking up with friends, going to jam nights, and networking. This involved real face time so it was much easier to weed through the doo-doo.

Now days many initial introductions are via the internet. This leaves the door wide open for flakes and BSers. Is there a sticky for the newbies for this yet? If not this may well be food for thought for those of us who are used to the processes of responding to ads; networking, auditioning techniques, etc.

Just a thought...
smogg

That's very true. The only ads of that type used to be in local music rags. Still, I don't think the Internet does any harm. Like any other info on the Net, you just have filter out the bullsh*t.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by DwaynieAD

the one problem with assuming these are red flags is that not everyone is going to be astute at creating an add for craigslist. I will agree that about 90% of the time your observations will be right, but that other 10% of the time you could be missing out due to preconceived notions.

Originally Posted by drpepper

This confuses the opportunity with the advertisement.

It is fact that it's quite common for people to post poorly written ads. For that reason, you can't have confidence that the ad you're reading is an accurate or complete picture. It may or may not be. A great presentation could have nothing behind it, and a poor, incomplete presentation could be the perfect fit for you.

Jumping from that to believing that you can clearly "decode" red flags to arrive at the truth in what is potentially a poorly written description is foolish IMO.

The goal is matching your desires and expectations to an opportunity, not an ad. Yes. The ad is the starting point, but this "exercise" makes it the end game. The ad here is incomplete. Any of the things taken as "red flags" could be misinterpreted and if it were real, it could be an opportunity missed…it could also be bass playing pig in a poke.

Best to take each ad and communicate on any questions or points of clarification and go from there.

I think that's a real lesson there. Sometimes the best opportunities are the ones that others have passed over because it wasn't presented properly. If you're really serious about doing something, you owe it to yourself to at least spend a little time checking it out. It's hard to tell much about an opportunity in one paragraph. There's too many stories about successful ventures that others passed on due to 'red flags'.

Personally, I have found a paying opportunity in just about every red flag mentioned, and many red flags not mentioned here. And the ones that didn't lead to a paid gig, it was still fun to meet people and make music, and possibly prime myself for a future opporuntity.

You just gotta love making music, and if you start from there, you'll find way more positive experiences than negative ones.

[smogg]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Bingo!
I don't really agree with the viewpoint that being a "real" bass player means playing in a band with the focus on making money.

I play because I like playing.
I don't need to have more gigs than you... or make more money at it than you to feel accomplished in what I do.

I kinda like those Ads that state "nothing serious" and "for fun".
It shows that they really just want to make some music.
Nothing wrong with that!

Well said, but lets take for granted that we all enjoy playing. (I personally generally shy away from ads that that say "just for fun", etc. But that's just me.) It will then come down to personal motivation. Are you looking for hang or gigs or what? I subscribe to the gig triad concept;
good money
good hang
good music
I need at least two out of three to be in a project. And of course it is up to us as individuals to set the parameters for what we define as "good."