Auditions, How To Weed Out Flakes

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by smogg

Well said, but lets take for granted that we all enjoy playing. (I personally generally shy away from ads that that say "just for fun", etc. But that's just me.) It will then come down to personal motivation. Are you looking for hang or gigs or what? I subscribe to the gig triad concept;
good money
good hang
good music
I need at least two out of three to be in a project. And of course it is up to us as individuals to set the parameters for what we define as "good."

I totally agree.
What would turn me off to this ad would be the Ga Ga to Black Keys part.
If they are that far stretched it would break the Good music part and be the second strike seeing how the money will not be good.

[bassbully]

[quote=jive1;13543491]


50s would be old and set in their ways, and out of touch with what's hip.[QUOTE





HEY there Sonny! I'm 50 going to hopefully be 51 soon and I'm not set in my ways and out of touch with what's hip...no sir!

I might need a nap and have to stretch out between sets but I'm still hip

[smogg]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

That's very true. The only ads of that type used to be in local music rags. Still, I don't think the Internet does any harm. Like any other info on the Net, you just have filter out the bullsh*t.

I hear you. I don't mean to infer that CL and/or the internet is bad. I'm just saying that IMO/IME those of us with band/gigging experience have better developed skill sets for sorting through the BS and getting the opportunities we seek, than say some one just venturing out of the garage seeking their first gigging opportunity.

I think that is what Blue was initially trying to do here. At least that's the way I see the OP.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by bassbully

I might need a nap and have to stretch out between sets but I'm still hip

That's because of your hip replacement surgery......

[MostlyBass]

[quote=bassbully;13543726]

Originally Posted by jive1

50s would be old and set in their ways, and out of touch with what's hip.[QUOTE





HEY there Sonny! I'm 50 going to hopefully be 51 soon and I'm not set in my ways and out of touch with what's hip...no sir!

I might need a nap and have to stretch out between sets but I'm still hip

My band has members from age 25 - 65! An interestingly the 65 year old drummer is the loudest and loves to rock out.

[jive1]

Just to provide another side, and reinforce why you should check things out past an ad, here's some real life experiences I've had with 'red flags'

- Established band looking for a bass player
True, most successful and established bands have a stable of folks to choose from. But sometimes you run into an instance where schedules don't match up for some reason, and you have to pick someone up off the street. Some bandleaders are just disorganized. I subbed for a 10 year old band playing A list rooms off a CL ad. My first show with them was in a hip neighborhood, playing to a packed house and getting paid well.

- Established band that changed format
Worked with a Blues band that was asked by their agent to switch up their format and modify their name so they can get more bookings. They added more Classic Rock and R&B to the mix, and it worked out well.

- Wide and varied songlist
Every event or wedding band I ever worked with had a songlist of 100s of tunes from Hava Nagila to Lady Gaga. If you play this type of gig, it will be expected that you can play at a high level for many styles of music.

- Have fun and make money
That's about every band I've been involved in. There's not enough money in this for me to do it and not be fun. If it's just about the money, I can work less and make more money in many more things, such as flipping burgers. I got to have fun. Even in my droll day job, I still try to have fun. I can't imagine a life where having fun is frowned upon, or where they think having fun automatically kills your productivity. If anything, I find that people are more productive if they are enjoying themselves.

- Mid 30s.
I worked with guys in their teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s and they all had their own set of problems, personal and related to their stage of life. This isn't a high security job where the state of the world is at stake. You play your instrument and get along with others, the rest is your business.

- Practice twice a week
One of the top bands around here lost their lead singer. They had lots of bookings, and they had to get the person up to speed quickly. There were lots of vocalists who passed on having to rehearse twice a week, but the one that did got herself a very steady, well paying gig out of it without having to practice once a week.

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by smogg

"What questions should be asked when responding to a generic ad?"

Where have you played?
How long since your last gig?
What is the bands minimum rate?
Pre established set list or a work in progress?
Is there pending work on the books?
How often do you play out?

Good questions

[jive1]

Originally Posted by MostlyBass

My band has members from age 25 - 65! An interestingly the 65 year old drummer is the loudest and loves to rock out.

It was just a joke on stereotypes. I've played with guys who were 60 who had more enthusiam that guys in their 20s. I worked with a female vocalist in her 40s that knew how to work it better than any 20something I ever worked with.

Musicians are exceptional/quirky/wierd, so lots of the age stereotypes don't quite fly for me.

[lwknives]

Also, 20s dont always mean irresponsible, full of drama always broke ect. (well maybe always broke lol)
Im 21, I have pro gear, work a good job (engineering internship), I will show up on time and have less drama going on than most older people I know. I am broke, but thats because Im paying for my own college tuition without going into debt.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by lwknives

Also, 20s dont always mean irresponsible, full of drama always broke ect. (well maybe always broke lol)
Im 21, I have pro gear, work a good job (engineering internship), I will show up on time and have less drama going on than most older people I know. I am broke, but thats because Im paying for my own college tuition without going into debt.

Just kidding, bro.

It makes as much sense as saying that someone in their mid 30s can't play in a band at a serious level.

[lwknives]

Im so ofended how dare you make a joke on the enternet
jk i figured you were.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by smogg

I hear you. I don't mean to infer that CL and/or the internet is bad. I'm just saying that IMO/IME those of us with band/gigging experience have better developed skill sets for sorting through the BS and getting the opportunities we seek, than say some one just venturing out of the garage seeking their first gigging opportunity.

I think that is what Blue was initially trying to do here. At least that's the way I see the OP.

I can understand the good intention, but from what I see, this is really more an exercise in coming to assumptions.

And you know what they say about the word "ASSUME".

[smogg]

Awesome post Jive1, great insights. I still say there should be a "Tips n tricks to help pass an audition & get gigs - sticky" (or something to that effect) here to help the noobs and vets alike.
I'm A-OK with learning a better, easier, more efficient way of getting things done.

Originally Posted by jive1

Just to provide another side, and reinforce why you should check things out past an ad, here's some real life experiences I've had with 'red flags'

- Established band looking for a bass player
True, most successful and established bands have a stable of folks to choose from. But sometimes you run into an instance where schedules don't match up for some reason, and you have to pick someone up off the street. Some bandleaders are just disorganized. I subbed for a 10 year old band playing A list rooms off a CL ad. My first show with them was in a hip neighborhood, playing to a packed house and getting paid well.

- Established band that changed format
Worked with a Blues band that was asked by their agent to switch up their format and modify their name so they can get more bookings. They added more Classic Rock and R&B to the mix, and it worked out well.

- Wide and varied songlist
Every event or wedding band I ever worked with had a songlist of 100s of tunes from Hava Nagila to Lady Gaga. If you play this type of gig, it will be expected that you can play at a high level for many styles of music.

- Have fun and make money
That's about every band I've been involved in. There's not enough money in this for me to do it and not be fun. If it's just about the money, I can work less and make more money in many more things, such as flipping burgers. I got to have fun. Even in my droll day job, I still try to have fun. I can't imagine a life where having fun is frowned upon, or where they think having fun automatically kills your productivity. If anything, I find that people are more productive if they are enjoying themselves.

- Mid 30s.
I worked with guys in their teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s and they all had their own set of problems, personal and related to their stage of life. This isn't a high security job where the state of the world is at stake. You play your instrument and get along with others, the rest is your business.

- Practice twice a week
One of the top bands around here lost their lead singer. They had lots of bookings, and they had to get the person up to speed quickly. There were lots of vocalists who passed on having to rehearse twice a week, but the one that did got herself a very steady, well paying gig out of it without having to practice once a week.

[jive1]

Originally Posted by smogg

When I started out there was no CL. I don't think there were even home PC's yet...lol. One found their way by hooking up with friends, going to jam nights, and networking. This involved real face time so it was much easier to weed through the doo-doo.

That's the way I did it back in the day, and I still think this is the best way to screen folks. The internet is good for broadcasting opportunities, but the old fashioned way is still the best way to weed through stuff. The phone and face to face tell me way much more than an ad or an e-mail.

[nortonrider]

Here's an Ad ..... Any "red flags" for you?????:

Extremely Busy Band seeks Bassist.

. We are an eclectic group of all ages. None of us have anything in common so there is absolutely no interaction off stage.
We do not "hang"! I am not even sure if the drummer speaks english or not as I have never spoken to him.

.We NEVER Practice

.We have gigs scheduled 6 nights a week for the next 2 1/2 years, you must be willing to commit to playing all gigs.

.We ONLY play one style of music and never ever deviate. Learning new songs or changing the set list is strictly taboo.

.Money is our primary focus, so if you think that you will be having fun and enjoying playing, you are not the right person for this group.

.Improvisers, social partiers, music fans and people with less than 22 years recent gigging experience need not apply.

Send a video and professional audio recording of yourself to the Band Leader and Extreme Overlord for consideration.
If it is determined that you may have what it takes, you will be contacted to begin the extensive audition process.



Point being.......
The Red Flags are determined by what YOUR goals are. Personally, everything listed above would be a red flag for me.

[smogg]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Here's an Ad ..... Any "red flags" for you?????:

Extremely Busy Band seeks Bassist.

. We are an eclectic group of all ages. None of us have anything in common so there is absolutely no interaction off stage.
We do not "hang"! I am not even sure if the drummer speaks english or not as I have never spoken to him.

.We NEVER Practice

.We have gigs scheduled 6 nights a week for the next 2 1/2 years, you must be willing to commit to playing all gigs.

.We ONLY play one style of music and never ever deviate. Learning new songs or changing the set list is strictly taboo.

.Money is our primary focus, so if you think that you will be having fun and enjoying playing, you are not the right person for this group.

.Improvisers, social partners, music fans and people with less than 22 years recent gigging experience need not apply.

Send a video and professional audio recording of yourself to the Band Leader and Extreme Overlord for consideration.
If it is determined that you may have what it takes, you will be contacted to begin the extensive audition process.



Point being.......
The Red Flags are determined by what YOUR goals are. Personally, everything listed above would be a red flag for me.

LMAO that is priceless man. I was ok with it 'till it got to "no new songs" & "no fun". But then again no new songs could just mean nothings past a certain decade. Would def have to ask about that one.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by jive1

I'd expect a guy in his 50s to have better grammar.

Maybe we need a thread, "Talkbass, How to weed out the flakes."

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by jive1

Just to provide another side, and reinforce why you should check things out past an ad, here's some real life experiences I've had with 'red flags'

- Established band looking for a bass player
True, most successful and established bands have a stable of folks to choose from. But sometimes you run into an instance where schedules don't match up for some reason, and you have to pick someone up off the street. Some bandleaders are just disorganized. I subbed for a 10 year old band playing A list rooms off a CL ad. My first show with them was in a hip neighborhood, playing to a packed house and getting paid well.

- Established band that changed format
Worked with a Blues band that was asked by their agent to switch up their format and modify their name so they can get more bookings. They added more Classic Rock and R&B to the mix, and it worked out well.

- Wide and varied songlist
Every event or wedding band I ever worked with had a songlist of 100s of tunes from Hava Nagila to Lady Gaga. If you play this type of gig, it will be expected that you can play at a high level for many styles of music.

- Have fun and make money
That's about every band I've been involved in. There's not enough money in this for me to do it and not be fun. If it's just about the money, I can work less and make more money in many more things, such as flipping burgers. I got to have fun. Even in my droll day job, I still try to have fun. I can't imagine a life where having fun is frowned upon, or where they think having fun automatically kills your productivity. If anything, I find that people are more productive if they are enjoying themselves.

- Mid 30s.
I worked with guys in their teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s and they all had their own set of problems, personal and related to their stage of life. This isn't a high security job where the state of the world is at stake. You play your instrument and get along with others, the rest is your business.

- Practice twice a week
One of the top bands around here lost their lead singer. They had lots of bookings, and they had to get the person up to speed quickly. There were lots of vocalists who passed on having to rehearse twice a week, but the one that did got herself a very steady, well paying gig out of it without having to practice once a week.

Yep, yep and yep...

I think the only hard and fast rule might be that there are no hard and fast rules.

Two examples I have here locally are successful A room bands that brought on new bass players in the past few months. I heard about both because they put feelers out (that I caught because of mutual friends and acquaintances) but they both also ended up advertising on CL and Bandmix.

Both were killer opportunities. While I theoretically would love to have auditioned for either, playing out 6-8 times per month is way too much for me, but I did follow both sagas.

One did a pretty concise, generic ad that didn't name the band, so someone without the information I had might have seen all kinds of red flags. A reader would likely not have recognized the opportunity for what it was through decoding. The ad did pretty clearly spell out what they were looking for, but didn't speak so much to details about the band. They were looking for a long time…someone might even take repeated posting of the same ad for a long time to be an indication of a problem, and they'd have been wrong.

The other band's ad had more bases covered, identified themselves, places they played, website/fb links, etc., but they mentioned the no-now of having fun and a seeming conflicting "genre combinations."

I guess there would be a big red flag for some current danceable radio, 80's hits, rocked-up 90's hip hot/rap, a handful of classic rock tunes and a splash of modern country, but that's the most successful formula under the heading of party rock going right now.

[drpepper]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Point being.......
The Red Flags are determined by what YOUR goals are.

Nail...head...hit

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by nortonrider

Bluewine:
Just for a change of flavor.......... how about you crafting the "perfect" band ad for us?
(I'd like to see how age has anything to do with the composition.)

What do you think should be in an introductory ad?

I can think about that, sounds like a good idea.

At 59 age is always a touchy subject. At a high level I don't think age should matter. However for me at 59 soon to be 60 I don't see myself playing with 21 year olds.

Blue